SSS - Not a rebuild, but a re-tool

[Slateman]

Keep seeing people down. But this is just a re-tool. With the right trades, the Nats could be right back in the thick of things the next season.

[Mattionals]

Keep seeing people down. But this is just a re-tool. With the right trades, the Nats could be right back in the thick of things the next season.

Let's say 2023.

[UMDNats]

Can easy compete in 2022. A lot hinges on Strasburg and Corbin but if Garcia looks good the rest of the year up here and Kieboom has signs of life and Schwarber comes back...

NL East is bad. Mets have loaded up but still are the Mets. Phillies are trying but keep getting in their own way. Braves just lost an entire season due to pitching injuries. It's winnable.

[aspenbubba]

Can easy compete in 2022. A lot hinges on Strasburg and Corbin but if Garcia looks good the rest of the year up here and Kieboom has signs of life and Schwarber comes back...
 

And if the Queen had..................she would be the King

[nfotiu]

Keep seeing people down. But this is just a re-tool. With the right trades, the Nats could be right back in the thick of things the next season.

Of course you are happy.  You've been cheering for a rebuild for at least 3-4 years now.

[Slateman]

Can easy compete in 2022. A lot hinges on Strasburg and Corbin but if Garcia looks good the rest of the year up here and Kieboom has signs of life and Schwarber comes back...

NL East is bad. Mets have loaded up but still are the Mets. Phillies are trying but keep getting in their own way. Braves just lost an entire season due to pitching injuries. It's winnable.

Yep. Lets say Rizzo manages a trade like for Josiah Gray. You get Kieboom and Robles to improve to expectations, and Cavalli gets his innings in thr AFL, you can roll in to the offseason and get a pitcher.

[Slateman]

Of course you are happy.  You've been cheering for a rebuild for at least 3-4 years now.

And? Outside of 5 insanely lucky months in 2019, the 2018 - 2021 Nats have been rather mediocre. Its obvious this team needed to sell in 2018. The luck of 2019 has simply delayed that for almost two seasons.

[Smithian]

Keep seeing people down. But this is just a re-tool. With the right trades, the Nats could be right back in the thick of things the next season.

I mean, yes. This is the free agency era. Any team could absolutely re-tool in one offseason. I know you started this thread sarcastically, but I'll take a run at it anyway.

I see zero reason to aim at competing next season. There will be a messy offseason with a labor dispute and the likelihood is that 2022 will be a labor disaster. This team has holes everywhere and the minor leagues simply don't have many answers. Yes, it's possible a free agency and trade binge could put the Nationals in place to compete in 2022, but it is hard to foresee how.

The Nationals should target everything toward 2023. Let the books clear up between now and then so that they have major financial flexibility going in the 22/23 offseason. Spend 2022 as a tryout season. Try out any AAA player with a pulse. Be aggressive on the waiver wire. See if you find any pieces. Assuming the Nationals move Turner and Hand, the payroll will be so low that on the minor chance Corbin and Strasburg are dealing and Soto is having a next level season, they can add at the deadline. Teams are always trying to drop salary.

Aim at 2023 and 2024 so that you have two seasons to compete with Juan Soto, and hopefully convince him he wants to stay along the way. By then, we hopefully will have some pitcher come though the system, we may have a starter or two develop out of our haul next few days, and you have to think Rizzo will have around $100 million of AAV he can add next deadline and in the offseason heading into 2023 before your two year window with Soto.

And hope to all that's holy that between Corbin and Strasburg you get at least one major league average starter in 2023.

[Slateman]

I think Stras or Corbin gives us one more good year. Thats the year we have to  be ready for.

[zimm_da_kid]

The key is if we trade turner and Scherzer, we NEED to get back premium guys who can contribute in meaningful ways NEXT YEAR.  Bart, Keibert, Julio Rodriguez, campusano, etc

[Section214]

The key is if we trade turner and Scherzer, we NEED to get back premium guys who can contribute in meaningful ways NEXT YEAR.  Bart, Keibert, Julio Rodriguez, campusano, etc

If we trade Turner, we have no chance of competing next year. It is a complete rebuild. If we flip Max, Hudson, Hand and Harrison for a nice group of guys, that's refilling the depleted farm system, not a rebuild. We can be competitive next year with a healthy Strasburg, Corbin coming back to life and a lineup with Gomes - Bell - Garcia - Turner - Kieboom - Schwarber - Robles - Soto, if the young guys can step up.

[NatsAllThe Way]

It's a travesty that the Mets will win this division.  They are a pathetically bad team.  Of course, we are much worse.

[zimm_da_kid]

If we trade Turner, we have no chance of competing next year. It is a complete rebuild. If we flip Max, Hudson, Hand and Harrison for a nice group of guys, that's refilling the depleted farm system, not a rebuild. We can be competitive next year with a healthy Strasburg, Corbin coming back to life and a lineup with Gomes - Bell - Garcia - Turner - Kieboom - Schwarber - Robles - Soto, if the young guys can step up.

We could very well compete if we trade turner for major league ready prospects and make smart offseason acquisitions.  Look at the Mariners.  They are 9 games over .500 with a lineup of haniger and a bunch of average to below average hitters and no notable starting pitchers

[nfotiu]

And? Outside of 5 insanely lucky months in 2019, the 2018 - 2021 Nats have been rather mediocre. Its obvious this team needed to sell in 2018. The luck of 2019 has simply delayed that for almost two seasons.

So even in retrospect, you'd rather them have blown in up in 2018 because we'd have a better team now?  You shouldn't even have been cheering when we won.

I'm always of the belief they won the world series because they made the playoffs 5 times.   They could have won it any of those years.   The most fortunate thing to happen in 2019 is all their key players were healthy.   You can go all in and build a powerhouse and you can probably win some divisions, but winning it all takes some luck and good fortune.

[Slateman]

So even in retrospect, you'd rather them have blown in up in 2018 because we'd have a better team now?  You shouldn't even have been cheering when we won.

I'm always of the belief they won the world series because they made the playoffs 5 times.   They could have won it any of those years.   The most fortunate thing to happen in 2019 is all their key players were healthy.   You can go all in and build a powerhouse and you can probably win some divisions, but winning it all takes some luck and good fortune.

No, of course not. But trading Harper in 2018 should have been done. And blowing it up in the 2020 offseason should have been done.

It was so much more than all the key players being healthy in 2019. And it was obvious by the end if August what was wrong with Stras and that he was never going to be the same.

[imref]

So even in retrospect, you'd rather them have blown in up in 2018 because we'd have a better team now?  You shouldn't even have been cheering when we won.

I'm always of the belief they won the world series because they made the playoffs 5 times.   They could have won it any of those years.   The most fortunate thing to happen in 2019 is all their key players were healthy.   You can go all in and build a powerhouse and you can probably win some divisions, but winning it all takes some luck and good fortune.

Can I remind you that Slate started the "blow it up" thread in 2019? (https://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=37378.0). But, to be fair, most of us agreed with him at that point.

[Turnertheburner]

Keep seeing people down. But this is just a re-tool. With the right trades, the Nats could be right back in the thick of things the next season.

I'll have what he's drinking 

[Slateman]

I'll have what he's drinking 

Well, fortunately, your time with us is just about done.

[imref]

Projected 2022 lineup:
1. Robles - CF (R)
2. Soto - RF (L)
3. Bell - 1B (S)
4. Garcia - SS (R)
5. Hernandez - LF (L)
6. Kieboom 3B (R)
7. Barerra - C (R)
8. Knol - 2B (R)


Rotation: Corbin, Ross, Fedde, SP, SP

That's pretty freaking awful before making any moves.

[Section214]

Projected 2022 lineup:
1. Robles - CF (R)
2. Soto - RF (L)
3. Bell - 1B (S)
4. Garcia - SS (R)
5. Hernandez - LF (L)
6. Kieboom 3B (R)
7. Barerra - C (R)
8. Knol - 2B (R)


Rotation: Corbin, Ross, Fedde, SP, SP

That's pretty freaking awful before making any moves.

Boy this is bleak. That's maybe a 70 win team and one of the worst rotations in all of baseball. That said, I see no possible way they trade Max AND Trea without getting at least one guy who is in the lineup OR rotation next year. That seems very unlikely.

[imref]

Boy this is bleak. That's maybe a 70 win team and one of the worst rotations in all of baseball. That said, I see no possible way they trade Max AND Trea without getting at least one guy who is in the lineup OR rotation next year. That seems very unlikely.

Well, if you want to be optimistic, it's Strasburg, Corbin, Ross, Fedde, SP next year.

[zimm_da_kid]

Don’t forget espino.  At this point he’s above Fedde and voth on the SP depth chart

[imref]

Don’t forget espino.  At this point he’s above Fedde and voth on the SP depth chart

Strasburg, Espino, Ross, Fedde, Corbin - smells like

[Section214]

Well, if you want to be optimistic, it's Strasburg, Corbin, Ross, Fedde, SP next year.

I want to be optimistic meaning I have

1. Turner

at the top of my projected lineup.

I do not believe he will not be on this team next year. I refuse to believe it.

[zimm_da_kid]

Strasburg, Espino, Ross, Fedde, Corbin - smells like

Not saying it’s a playoff rotation as is, but espino has definitely earned serious consideration into future roster construction as he’s not a free agent until after 2026