Author Topic: Safety at Nationals Park  (Read 621 times)

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Online Smithian

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Safety at Nationals Park
« Topic Start: July 17, 2021, 10:59:57 PM »
.@Nationals, it took way too long for you to communicate what fans should do. Lots of commotion. No announcement for an extended period of time. I was 1 of the 1000s who ran *in the exact direction* of where you’re now saying the shooting took place. Because security told me to.

https://twitter.com/subhancheema/status/1416578250164383744?s=21

There needs to be answers. There is no reason to assume it is a safe place. I’m certain I’ll be at a game sooner than later, but I don’t blame those who don’t feel safe taking kids.

This is sad.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #1: July 17, 2021, 11:12:57 PM »
.@Nationals, it took way too long for you to communicate what fans should do. Lots of commotion. No announcement for an extended period of time. I was 1 of the 1000s who ran *in the exact direction* of where you’re now saying the shooting took place. Because security told me to.

https://twitter.com/subhancheema/status/1416578250164383744?s=21

There needs to be answers. There is no reason to assume it is a safe place. I’m certain I’ll be at a game sooner than later, but I don’t blame those who don’t feel safe taking kids.

This is sad.
If you are worried about the police response, then I'll tell you it was fast and massive.  I heard numerous cars arriving from the eastern direction going up M Street or down Potomac when I was at the Navy Yard Station.  As for the Nats, I do wonder if they've drilled on this. It is the first shooting outside the park during a game, as far as anyone can remember.  I think it is reasonable to expect some panic if there are audible shots, and while I was literally at the Bullpen going over the Navy Yard when Finnegan was coming off the mound, the station was starting to fill at 3 minutes later.  The nats do a PSA on emergencies about 10 minutes before the Anthem, which was 15 minutes before first pitch, but I think no one really listens.

Online Smithian

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #2: July 18, 2021, 12:10:21 AM »
I’m not worried about police response. I’m worried about the facts Nationals Park security directed people to the place of danger.

It’s a billion dollar business that can’t be trusted to protect its customer. I’ll continue to go because risk assumption is part of any outing, but I wouldn’t take kids.

There will be people who laugh at this post, but you’re lying to yourself if you think tonight won’t lead to some people leaving the Park for a while. And that makes me sad.

Online hotshot

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #3: July 18, 2021, 07:46:57 AM »
Will the Stadium surroundings be an armed camp today? Massive police presence, a day late, just to try and make the safety point?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #4: July 18, 2021, 08:32:12 AM »
Will the Stadium surroundings be an armed camp today? Massive police presence, a day late, just to try and make the safety point?

One of the injured was a fan, so I’d assume so. If people no longer assume nats park and Audi field are safe, that costs the city a ton of money

Online imref

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #5: July 18, 2021, 08:51:40 AM »
Quote
Ann Plaza, a fan from McLean, said her group went on the field and through the Nationals’ dugout before ending up in the clubhouse near Manager Dave Martinez’s office.

“He was there, checking on everyone,” Plaza said of Martinez. “A security guard came and asked if we were family. He said, ‘Yes, they are family — they’re our fans.’ The guard then asked if we were players’ family, and then he said no. They then ushered us into the area right outside, and we hung out there until it was safe to leave.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/07/17/nationals-park-gunshots/

Machado, Tatis and Myers opened gates to allow family members and fans into their dugout

Online Smithian

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #6: July 18, 2021, 10:36:38 AM »
Will the Stadium surroundings be an armed camp today? Massive police presence, a day late, just to try and make the safety point?
I imagine Nationals Park will be the safest place in the city for the near future. But in the long term the city and the Park have to issue a safety plan that isn't, "More cops than fans."

I want the Nationals to address how the breakdown I shared in the first post occurred. A dangerous, life threatening event occurred and the security staff did not live up to the ideals you'd hope. JCA laid out the point that they do do safety announcements before the game and the police response was massive, but it concerns me there was apparently security shoving fans toward where the shooting happened. That's unacceptable. If I was a parent and a security officer pointed me out the gate and my children walked out there, I never would have forgiven the organization.

How can they not communicate, "There was a shooting outside X gate, do not allow fans out that direction"? That isn't complicated.

I feel a bit bad for the Nationals Park staff since there are 29 other stadiums that probably would have failed under the pressure, but we know for a fact Nationals Park was not prepared. I'll be back this week. There will be fans who aren't.

Online Smithian

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #7: July 18, 2021, 10:37:38 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/07/17/nationals-park-gunshots/

Machado, Tatis and Myers opened gates to allow family members and fans into their dugout
The players and baseball staff met the moment professionally. Lots of good stories and anecdotes coming out.

Online imref

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #8: July 18, 2021, 10:39:57 AM »
we're heading to the park a bit, the family isn't finding my "remember to bring your kevlar vests" comment to be amusing.

Online imref

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #9: July 18, 2021, 10:42:45 AM »
I imagine Nationals Park will be the safest place in the city for the near future. But in the long term the city and the Park have to issue a safety plan that isn't, "More cops than fans."

I want the Nationals to address how the breakdown I shared in the first post occurred. A dangerous, life threatening event occurred and the security staff did not live up to the ideals you'd hope. JCA laid out the point that they do do safety announcements before the game and the police response was massive, but it concerns me there was apparently security shoving fans toward where the shooting happened. That's unacceptable. If I was a parent and a security officer pointed me out the gate and my children walked out there, I never would have forgiven the organization.

How can they not communicate, "There was a shooting outside X gate, do not allow fans out that direction"? That isn't complicated.

I feel a bit bad for the Nationals Park staff since there are 29 other stadiums that probably would have failed under the pressure, but we know for a fact Nationals Park was not prepared. I'll be back this week. There will be fans who aren't.

Fog of war - at the time of the shots nobody had any clue where the shots were fired, and the scope of the incident. The stadium announcers can't give any good information until they at least know what happened. If it was say a Vegas style attack coming from the hotel or condos across the street, the guidance would have been much different than what actually happened in this case. I hope they do have at least an active shooter plan well thought out and rehearsed, but they probably didn't consider what to do if there was a shooting outside the park that was quickly over. And even if they had an active shooter plan, Murphy's laws of combat notes that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. People will panic and quickly forget whatever training they had received.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #10: July 18, 2021, 11:02:11 AM »
I’m not worried about police response. I’m worried about the facts Nationals Park security directed people to the place of danger.

Honestly I will defer to Slateman on this, but the breakdown seems to be on working with the police on the evacuation.  the initial decision, is the threat iinside or outside, and do we keep people in or evacuate, was pretty sound. They did try to keep people in. They couldn't lock people in so some left. The only gate that should have been locked was the one on the 3rd base side nearest the scene. Are we sure that they evacuated through there? Then that's a mistake.

Offline RyanZimsKazoo

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #11: July 18, 2021, 12:34:27 PM »
This goes beyond just the nationals response. I don’t think it’s something most stadiums and teams should have to worry about given the amount of police presence is at these games and things. The problem lies within the city and the absolute pathetic response from DC govt regarding their ability to get crime under control. But hey, we all know why that is.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #12: July 18, 2021, 12:39:31 PM »
Hi troll.

Offline RyanZimsKazoo

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #13: July 18, 2021, 12:58:27 PM »
Hi troll.
truth hurts when you hear it? Don’t let the truth get in the way of your precious feelings. I work in the city and deal with this issue every single day. Congratulations on missing the point

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #14: July 18, 2021, 01:01:30 PM »
This goes beyond just the nationals response. I don’t think it’s something most stadiums and teams should have to worry about given the amount of police presence is at these games and things. The problem lies within the city and the absolute pathetic response from DC govt regarding their ability to get crime under control. But hey, we all know why that is.
Crime under control is a different issue. I posted about the police response, which was pretty quick and massive.  Then Smithian posted about it's the nats policy, so I posted about that. That's pretty much the field.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #15: July 18, 2021, 01:09:07 PM »
How cute.  I lived at 14th and S in the 80s - DC today is absolutely nothing like the "bad old days".  But go regale your bruhs back in Tyson with your tales from the trenches on the mean streets of K Street.     
truth hurts when you hear it? Don’t let the truth get in the way of your precious feelings. I work in the city and deal with this issue every single day. Congratulations on missing the point

Offline RyanZimsKazoo

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #16: July 18, 2021, 01:28:35 PM »
How cute.  I lived at 14th and S in the 80s - DC today is absolutely nothing like the "bad old days".  But go regale your bruhs back in Tyson with your tales from the trenches on the mean streets of K Street.   
First of all I grew up in PG County.
Secondly it’s not my fault you decided to live in this dump of a city.
Thirdly just because this ain’t the 80s doesn’t mean this city isn’t turning into the cesspool it  used to be. I work where I see Gun violence every day and it’s gotten consistently worse the last few years.

But go and project your bs somewhere else

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #17: July 18, 2021, 01:34:05 PM »
I am not going to monitor this topic this afternoon. It's too nice out and there's a ballgame too. I may reopen later.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #18: July 19, 2021, 03:17:47 PM »
Unlocking this topic, but I may re-lock it without warning.  I think discussions of safety as it relates to the park, fans, team, and surrounding areas is fine, but please try not to make it into too much of a single-issue pissing contest.  That goes for anyone/everone on any side of any issue.

If it gets too dumb I'm just going to chuck the whole thread into the dungeon and forget about it.

Offline Copecwby20

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #19: July 19, 2021, 03:56:20 PM »
To Smithian's point, there is a huge difference in how someone like Slate or myself would handle this scenario having dedicated a large portion of our adult lives training on how to react to situations like this. That training is expensive and takes up a lot of time and it needs to be constantly reinforced and maintained. I can promise you whoever the Nationals contract with for security are not giving any more training than a welcome aboard video and a "don't rape anybody" orientation film. The requirements to become a security guard are laughable at best.

Online imref

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #20: July 19, 2021, 04:02:49 PM »
as an aside, we were in section 305 toward the front yesterday. We could barely hear the PA announcements during the game. I sent a note to the team about it. If we were there during any emergency we wouldn't have heard what to do.  I only saw speakers behind us facing toward the concourse.

Offline miller10

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #21: July 19, 2021, 04:19:38 PM »
A Royals fan was shot inside the stadium from a stray bullet back in 2000.  It's an unfortunate byproduct of having stadiums in downtown areas.  That being said, what concerns me more is the amount of bullets people are allowed to fire off so quickly.  As someone not familiar with guns, the rapid fire sound really stunned me (in the hand of civilians).

Online hotshot

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #22: July 19, 2021, 05:11:59 PM »
A Royals fan was shot inside the stadium from a stray bullet back in 2000.  It's an unfortunate byproduct of having stadiums in downtown areas.  That being said, what concerns me more is the amount of bullets people are allowed to fire off so quickly.  As someone not familiar with guns, the rapid fire sound really stunned me (in the hand of civilians).
You obviously haven't been to Kauffman Stadium in KC (which is actually a good 15 miles from the city's downtown).

Offline miller10

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #23: July 19, 2021, 05:40:26 PM »
You obviously haven't been to Kauffman Stadium in KC (which is actually a good 15 miles from the city's downtown).

Actually, I have been to a game there.  Their is a neighborhood up on the hillside out beyond the stadium that the shot came from.  Agree, it's not a downtown stadium but the point still stands.  Stadiums are used to gentrify neighborhoods and crime in the area may be one of the byproducts.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: Safety at Nationals Park
« Reply #24: July 19, 2021, 05:51:23 PM »
Just out of curiosity (unrelated to security) ... how did they handle the ticket situation. (I ask because I haven't seen this covered in anything I've read.) Did ticket holders for the Friday (suspended game) get to go to the resumption on Saturday?   I'm sure  they didn't clear the stadium (in 25 minutes), and clearly they would not have let them stay for the regularly scheduled game (because, then what would they do with ticket holders for the scheduled game) so I am left to conclude that ticket holders for Saturday's game got to go to the resumption and then stay, while Friday ticket holders were crap out of luck. Is that how it was handled?