Author Topic: Former Nats Stinking it up  (Read 1924 times)

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Offline UMDNats

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #125: September 21, 2021, 06:17:08 PM »
Certainly didnt help. Lester is thriving in St Louis after leaving. When he left, he and Corbin were neck and neck for worst pitcher in baseball.

Joe Ross and Erick Fedde look awful.

Scherzer left and basically is the best he's ever been.

The entire bullpen seems unable to throw strikes.

So tell me, who IS to blame for all this? It isnt just one person or a handful. Its literally every pitcher except Espino who is getting worse as the season progresses.

Gray came over from LA and looked really solid and as soon as he got time with the Nats staff, he sucks!

Maybe the pitchers themselves? Fedde has never been much. The bullpen is a collection of guys that Rizzo accumulated in the same places he found Josh Harrison and Alcides Escobar, although Harrison and Escobar have had good major league seasons. Max had a 2.76 ERA on a .892 WHIP pitching for the Nats. He has been better with the Dodgers, a better team. Maybe having better fielders and hitters helps.

And Max seems always to have been his own pitching coach.

Lester? He pitched for the Nats about the way he pitched for the Cubs in 2019 and 2020. He is not pitching brilliantly with the Cardinals.

So, to repeat: there is no basis -- none -- for blaming the bad pitching on the Nats' pitching coach.

the last pitcher we've developed internally to be a decent pitcher is tanner roark. we are hands-down the worst pitching development team in the majors. unfathomably bad.

Offline imref

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #126: September 21, 2021, 06:22:54 PM »
To be fair, we traded a ton of pitching prospects to fill other needs.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #127: September 21, 2021, 06:23:17 PM »
Lester has an ERA of 4.02 since going to St Louis and has more quality starts in his last 30 days than he had in 4 months with the Nationals. That sounds pretty freaking brilliant to me.

Fedde was better in the two previous seasons.
The bullpen was a lot better the first three months of the season. It seems like every reliever that gets called up starts out strong and after about two or three weeks, suddenly cant throw strikes.

A better defense doesnt shave off 2 runs from your ERA, doesn't cut your walk rate in half, and doesnt drop your homenrun rate by over 1.

There is plenty of basis for questioning the pitching coach. Because they suck, and the people who had success before they got here get worse and the guys who left here have drastically improved.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #128: September 22, 2021, 08:46:03 AM »
the last pitcher we've developed internally to be a decent pitcher is tanner roark. we are hands-down the worst pitching development team in the majors. unfathomably bad.

I wouldn't even really count Roark, at least not full credit.  He was already in AA when he came over (and his numbers got worse in the Nats organization). 

Online welch

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #129: September 22, 2021, 11:56:30 AM »
Lester has an ERA of 4.02 since going to St Louis and has more quality starts in his last 30 days than he had in 4 months with the Nationals. That sounds pretty freaking brilliant to me.

Fedde was better in the two previous seasons.
The bullpen was a lot better the first three months of the season. It seems like every reliever that gets called up starts out strong and after about two or three weeks, suddenly cant throw strikes.

A better defense doesnt shave off 2 runs from your ERA, doesn't cut your walk rate in half, and doesnt drop your homenrun rate by over 1.

There is plenty of basis for questioning the pitching coach. Because they suck, and the people who had success before they got here get worse and the guys who left here have drastically improved.

Lester pitched for the Nats just as he had the previous two seasons for the Cubs. That's why they dropped him.

- Led the league in hits given up in 2019. His ERA has improved all the way from 5 to 4 in St. Louis. Just an ordinary improvement. Look at his WHIP from 2017 onward. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lestejo01.shtml

Fedde has never been a dependable starter, which is why he and Voth competed for number 5 in the rotation and why the Nats tried both as relievers. By the numbers, he is pitching better this season than ever, and he is awful.

- https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/feddeer01.shtml

Corbin had a good 2019, although we could see that he lost an edge when batters quit swinging at his dive-in-the-dirt slider. His only other pitch is a not-impressive fastball that he cannot spot to perfect locations.

Max is having a great spurt after a fine first-half for the Nats. Since he is his own pitching coach, it is illogical to believe that the Dodgers "fixed" something that had been wrong before.

The relievers are pickups that other teams threw away: Machado, Finnegan, Murphy, Lobstein, Baldonado, Clay.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #130: September 25, 2021, 04:09:42 PM »
Lester gave up 4 runs in 5 innings against the Cubs today.  Could have been worse as the Cubs had 8 hits and he walked 3.  Some genius strike calls from the home plate ump.  Looked like he hurt his arm also on the last batter.  100 pitches so assume he will not take the mound in the 6th.  I guess Maddux was on leave today. 

Offline imref

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #131: September 27, 2021, 11:50:55 AM »
Lester gave up 4 runs in 5 innings against the Cubs today.  Could have been worse as the Cubs had 8 hits and he walked 3.  Some genius strike calls from the home plate ump.  Looked like he hurt his arm also on the last batter.  100 pitches so assume he will not take the mound in the 6th.  I guess Maddux was on leave today. 

Maddux had an off day.

Offline imref

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #132: September 30, 2021, 10:45:37 PM »
Harper goes 0-9 with 5Ks in the Atlanta series.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #133: September 30, 2021, 11:46:32 PM »
Harper goes 0-9 with 5Ks in the Atlanta series.

Glad to see it. I don't like any Philadelphia teams because of the obnoxious fans in Philadelphia and it wouldn't surprise me if Harper reaches the playoffs at about the same rate as Mike Trout while he plays in Philadelphia.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #134: October 01, 2021, 08:51:34 AM »
Harper goes 0-9 with 5Ks in the Atlanta series.
carries his team to the golf course.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #135: October 01, 2021, 09:13:15 AM »
carries his team to the golf course.
Will the MVP trophy ride in the cart?

Offline imref

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #136: October 08, 2021, 04:47:18 PM »
Lucas Giolito, come on down...

Offline sixthree175

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #137: October 09, 2021, 05:04:23 PM »
Glad to see it. I don't like any Philadelphia teams because of the obnoxious fans in Philadelphia and it wouldn't surprise me if Harper reaches the playoffs at about the same rate as Mike Trout while he plays in Philadelphia.
Not half as glad as I.

Offline sixthree175

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #138: October 09, 2021, 05:05:35 PM »
Lucas Giolito, come on down...
Yeah, but "that dude's an All Star!"  :mg:

Offline imref

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #139: October 12, 2021, 12:10:29 PM »
Last night was Scherzer's first loss since the trade.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #140: October 12, 2021, 01:40:20 PM »
Last night was Scherzer's first loss since the trade.
too bad it is LA.  If it were Philly or New York, they'd be ripping him apart and he'd decide not to re-sign there.  LA, it's like "did you see the guy with the 2 color-eyes?  I'm writing a script about this werewolf with those eyes.  I'm hoping Matt Damon will be the lead.  Can you set up a meeting?"

Online Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #141: October 12, 2021, 01:41:25 PM »
And his ERA went down

Online welch

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #142: October 12, 2021, 02:05:24 PM »
too bad it is LA.  If it were Philly or New York, they'd be ripping him apart and he'd decide not to re-sign there.  LA, it's like "did you see the guy with the 2 color-eyes?  I'm writing a script about this werewolf with those eyes.  I'm hoping Matt Damon will be the lead.  Can you set up a meeting?"

Friend of mine from GE Information Services. He had worked at our Atlanta office, component's HQ in Rockville, and then in NYC. Then in LA. When I saw him next, he said, "Well, in Atlanta, they ask a new-comer 'Where do you go to church'. In New York, they ask, 'Where do you work". IN LA, they ask, 'Where do you work out'". That was back in the late '90s, before there was a gym on every other corner.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #143: October 12, 2021, 02:08:15 PM »
too bad it is LA.  If it were Philly or New York, they'd be ripping him apart and he'd decide not to re-sign there.  LA, it's like "did you see the guy with the 2 color-eyes?  I'm writing a script about this werewolf with those eyes.  I'm hoping Matt Damon will be the lead.  Can you set up a meeting?"
When Halladay lost the 1-0 game to Carpenter no one ripped him. Now the offense they ripped.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #144: October 12, 2021, 02:34:09 PM »
Trea is 1 for 13.


Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #146: October 13, 2021, 08:56:20 AM »
I think Dusty is a terrific regular season manager.  He takes 90 win teams and makes them 96 win teams. As for an individual game or a short series, his game moves are middling, and often in the playoffs, he's up against the elite.  I think that, with the Nats and now Houston, he's picking up different approaches (like more use of data rather than impressions), which should help.  He's in a position where he'll get no credit if the Astros beat Boston because houston is a pretty complete team with high end stars on paper, but it'll be added to the Dusty blows it mythology if they fall.  The only thing that can get people to shut up about Dusty is if he wins it all. 

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #147: October 13, 2021, 11:03:39 AM »
The only thing that can get people to shut up about Dusty is if he wins it all. 

 I don’t think too many people are even thinking to mention him except that he usually hasn’t been seen as a positive difference maker in the postseason. He took over a team that already had postseason success, and did it under unusual circumstances and basically had to leave things largely on auto pilot.  I don’t think most people are saying “wow, wish he was in the dugout for us“.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #148: October 13, 2021, 11:30:27 AM »
you can be talented and underperform, and some of that is on the manager.  Can say that about the 2015 Nats for sure.  Clubhouse got out of control.  Dusty came in in 2016 and 2017 and won 2 straight divisions with mid-90s win totals. I don't get on him too much for the Scherzer relief appearance in the playoffs. That was one weird inning with blown calls, catcher's interference, etc... and he lost with a fairly conventional modern strategy of using his best available starter in relief in a deciding game.  Cora, Martinez, Roberts have done it, too.  But Dusty hasn't yet earned a "big game" manager rep yet, and does not deserve one.  He's a fine regular season manager who takes I think every team he's been with to the playoffs (SF, CHC, Cin, Was, Houston).  At some point, you do it enough, even with the talent, it's not luck.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Former Nats Stinking it up
« Reply #149: October 13, 2021, 11:58:33 AM »
Dusty came in in 2016 and 2017 and won 2 straight divisions with mid-90s win totals. I don't get on him too much for the Scherzer relief appearance in the playoffs. That was one weird inning with blown calls, catcher's interference, etc...

...don't forget the stoopid slide by Jayson Werth in left field...  :hammer: