Author Topic: 2021 Trade Discussions/Rumors/Deadline - buy or sell  (Read 2009 times)

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Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Deichmann cant play RF. Id take him for Hudson and Hand though. Could be moved to first base. Or DH.

His later age is due some nagging injuries out of college, and then missing the 2020 season.

Fair, but if he can play LF he'd have been up and there, because Canha could've moved over even before Laureano got hurt. 

Offline GataNats

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If Garcia keeps doing what he's doing in Rochester, Trea Turner will be on the clock.

Lol.  Garcia isn’t a hundredth of the player of Turner in any of phase of the game.   We want a SS that is 5’8 with zero speed and zero pop?

Offline Slateman

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Lol.  Garcia isn’t a hundredth of the player of Turner in any of phase of the game.   We want a SS that is 5’8 with zero speed and zero pop?
Garcia is 6' 2"

Offline imref

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Lol.  Garcia isn’t a hundredth of the player of Turner in any of phase of the game.   We want a SS that is 5’8 with zero speed and zero pop?

IIRC, he grades as an average SS who would likely end up at 2B or 3B.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Lol.  Garcia isn’t a hundredth of the player of Turner in any of phase of the game.   We want a SS that is 5’8 with zero speed and zero pop?

His defense should be about on par with Turner's (at worst) given usual development.  Turner was a worse defender when he came up at SS than Garcia is now.  Garcia is also a much larger human than Turner: he's 6'2"/220.  That's roughly the same height and 35-40 pounds heavier.  The pop will come.  Dude's 21. 

Yeah, he's probably not going to be as good as Turner, but that's not for any other reason than Turner is really, really good.  Garcia is likely to be a legitimate midrange MLB SS, not an MVP vote-getter and top-5 at his position.   He also won't cost $30+ million a year, which is about what Turner's in line for if he keeps this up. 

Offline Smithian

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Lol.  Garcia isn’t a hundredth of the player of Turner in any of phase of the game.   We want a SS that is 5’8 with zero speed and zero pop?
Luis Garcia is currently crushing the ball in AAA. Off to his best season by far in the minors. And you're right, he probably won't be Trea Turner, but he can still be a good SS or 3B who the Nationals can win games with even if he isn't Turner.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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again, on MLB.com, writer's roundtable on trade candidates.  Discussing Max to St L, they say it is one of the most obvious places (along with Toronto) and mention Gorman as the logical price.

Quote
Feinsand:
Nolan Gorman would look good in Washington. And St. Louis seems to be set at third base for a while.

Morosi: Yes, Max for Gorman sounds like a great deal. And the Nats need to replenish their prospect base after going for it over the last decade, really. There's such an aversion in the game to giving up prospects, but the Cardinals have a strong rationale to trade Gorman. They clearly need pitching.

And Cardinals GM John Mozeliak can say, "I got our third baseman in an incredibly favorable deal last winter, so giving up Gorman is something we can do."

Not that Mo will say those words exactly. But he could!

Feinsand: Gorman is the one big prospect the Cardinals (No. 2 in their system, per MLB Pipeline) can afford to part with. I’m not saying they would deal him for a rental, but if the front office believes Scherzer makes them a legit contender, why not do it? The Cubs knew how good Gleyber was going to be, but Theo Epstein believed Chapman was the missing piece, so he made the deal. And then the Cubs won the World Series. Sometimes, you just need to go for it.

If Gorman had been in the Arenado deal, nobody would have flinched.
https://www.mlb.com/news/trevor-story-max-scherzer-trade-deadline-roundtable?partnerId=zh-20210608-419970-MLB-1-A&qid=1026&utm_id=zh-20210608-419970-MLB-1-A&bt_ee=1pENloU3G9ki8WsigtO8Hm6n%2BpyarAF%2BKJ9SKiDCKkiYBsEbccV8jZobSQqw7tNm&bt_ts=1623163948066

Besides Toronto, Feinsand say another 4 or so teams would get into the bidding.

Offline DPMOmaha

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A bidding war for Max would be the best case scenario if we don't get back into it.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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All I know is we better get back blue chip hitting prospects.  So help me god if we trade max for pitchers...

Offline Slateman

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I think Gorman is an overpay by St. Louis. There would have to be a pretty crazy bidding war. Or the Nats would have to eat all of money. I would think Walker and Hence would be more likely.

The Cubs overpaying for Chapman probably serves as a warning to others about a deal like that.

Offline Natsinpwc

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I think Gorman is an overpay by St. Louis. There would have to be a pretty crazy bidding war. Or the Nats would have to eat all of money. I would think Walker and Hence would be more likely.

The Cubs overpaying for Chapman probably serves as a warning to others about a deal like that.
And yet the Cubs won it all that year and the Yanks have not been in a World Series. 

Offline Slateman

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And yet the Cubs won it all that year and the Yanks have not been in a World Series. 
Cubs won in spite of Chapman. Dude blew three saves, including Game 7 and had to bailed out by Ross.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Cubs won in spite of Chapman. Dude blew three saves, including Game 7 and had to bailed out by Ross.
He got the last five outs of the NLCS. And Maddon admitted overusing him.

Offline Slateman

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He got the last five outs of the NLCS. And Maddon admitted overusing him.
Whatever you want to believe.

Theo gave up Torres for Chapman to blow three games. Rizzo gave up Kyle Johnston for Hudson to blow nothing.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I think Gorman is an overpay by St. Louis. There would have to be a pretty crazy bidding war. Or the Nats would have to eat all of money. I would think Walker and Hence would be more likely.

The Cubs overpaying for Chapman probably serves as a warning to others about a deal like that.
I honestly have done a market break down for comparables to Max.  Maybe Greinke?  He's better than JV when he was traded.  Heck, Jon Lester in 2014 brought back I think Cespedes with some control (who was then traded for Porcello at the end of the season). 

Feinsand seems to be the one most sold on this because there's a sense Gorman's blocked and also says Theo knew what he gave up to get  Chapman.  Yes, were Max on the block, there'd be a bidding war.  I'd imagine the acquiring team would not be on the hook for the prior deferrals and would at most be responsible for his remaining cash due for this year (which is deferred, too).

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Gorman is blocked by arenado and goldschmidt so he should be expendable.  I’d rather have Jordan walker and 1-2 more back end of their top 10 guys

Offline Slateman

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I honestly have done a market break down for comparables to Max.  Maybe Greinke?  He's better than JV when he was traded.  Heck, Jon Lester in 2014 brought back I think Cespedes with some control (who was then traded for Porcello at the end of the season). 

Feinsand seems to be the one most sold on this because there's a sense Gorman's blocked and also says Theo knew what he gave up to get  Chapman.  Yes, were Max on the block, there'd be a bidding war.  I'd imagine the acquiring team would not be on the hook for the prior deferrals and would at most be responsible for his remaining cash due for this year (which is deferred, too).
Grienke and Verlander had multiple years of control and a big contract.

The closest is CC Sabathia and Lester. The ironic part about the Sabathia trade was that Laporta was the big piece, and he was a bust, but the throw in piece (Brantley) turned into the haul.

Im not saying that Scherzer couldnt bring back a big time prospect, I just dont see the Cards as that kind if team. Thats a really short term gain for them. Gorman has a ton of value right now, and I'd expect a team like the Cards to want to get a return that will be with the team longer. Something like Luis Castillo. Though with Flaherty out until August, that may change their minds.

Same for the Blue Jays. They absolutely need a Max Scherzer to compete this season, but they're looking long term.

The Braves, Red Sox, and Cubs are the most interesting trade partners I could see. The Braves desperately need a quality starter. The Sox and Cubs didnt expect to be here.

I think the biggest questions are will the Lerners and Rizzo sell and will they eat money to get a better return?

Offline Slateman

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Gorman is blocked by arenado and goldschmidt so he should be expendable.  I’d rather have Jordan walker and 1-2 more back end of their top 10 guys
Arenado has an opt out this offseason and next.

And Gorman could play second

Offline Natsinpwc

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Whatever you want to believe.

Theo gave up Torres for Chapman to blow three games. Rizzo gave up Kyle Johnston for Hudson to blow nothing.
You always make me laugh.  Thanks.

Offline rileyn

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I've seen enough.  I'm all in on an overhaul.  As much as I hate to see it, gotta put Max up for sale.  I guess we are stuck with Bell for one more year, but please move Castro, Harrison, Schwarber, Gomes, Avila, Hudson, Hand, and Lester.  I need to see Garcia play every day, and although I will cover my eyes, let's throw Kieboom out there (if we can't trade him). 

Offline Natsinpwc

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I've seen enough.  I'm all in on an overhaul.  As much as I hate to see it, gotta put Max up for sale.  I guess we are stuck with Bell for one more year, but please move Castro, Harrison, Schwarber, Gomes, Avila, Hudson, Hand, and Lester.  I need to see Garcia play every day, and although I will cover my eyes, let's throw Kieboom out there (if we can't trade him).
I’m in on an overhaul but Garcia and Kieboom could use a full year in the minors.  The Bell signing was really a disaster. Not sure what they saw in him.

Offline Slateman

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I’m in on an overhaul but Garcia and Kieboom could use a full year in the minors.  The Bell signing was really a disaster. Not sure what they saw in him.
Because Bell cost nothing and prior to 2020, he was a .831 OPS bat

Offline Smithian

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I think Gorman seems a bit too good to be true for a half season of Scherzer. You could sell me on a package of 2 or 3 of the back end of the their Top 10. 

Offline Smithian

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I’m in on an overhaul but Garcia and Kieboom could use a full year in the minors.  The Bell signing was really a disaster. Not sure what they saw in him.
At the price, Bell was a great risk. Will Crowe profiles at best as a long reliever who can slide into the back of the rotation. Yean is a scratch off lottery ticket.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Bell can be non-tendered, so he's not on this roster next year unless  we find a reason to want him.  Technically, Schwarber has an option, too (I forget if it's mutual and he could decline). 

Slate - I saw you list the Red Sox as a Scherzer seeker.  Were you saying Casas would be enough in your mind?  Are you nervous about contact skills?