Author Topic: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread  (Read 3544 times)

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Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #175: September 02, 2021, 01:56:19 PM »
The real question is what to do with Corbin going forward. There's really no reason not to let him finish out the season and make four or five more starts.  Then you bring him to camp next year and see what happens. If he's awful again, the only choice is to DFA him and eat the contract.
Why do you not let him finish this year? Team is tanking.

Offline welch

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #176: September 02, 2021, 02:00:27 PM »
Why do you not let him finish this year? Team is tanking.

But the Nats are not trying to lose. They are trying some young players and a couple older ones to see if they might be useful next season and later. Davey and Rizzo should know what they have in Corbin.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #177: September 02, 2021, 02:10:08 PM »
But the Nats are not trying to lose. They are trying some young players and a couple older ones to see if they might be useful next season and later. Davey and Rizzo should know what they have in Corbin.
You are paying this guy lots of money. Need to get him straightened out. It’s not like they are going to replace him with a prospect. More likely another soft tosser like Nolin or Espino. As I said before have him work on his other pitches.

Offline imref

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #178: September 02, 2021, 02:16:38 PM »
Why do you not let him finish this year? Team is tanking.

I would let him finish this year, sorry if that wasn't clear.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #179: September 02, 2021, 02:49:38 PM »
I was replying to a comment that we shouldn’t have signed him in the first place. I’m not debating that he is awful now. I don’t think it matters whether he was “worth” a six year contract. That’s what it took to keep him from signing with the Yankees.

I can acknowledge that he sucks now but still think it was necessary to sign him. This is the price of admission for a big time free agent pitcher.

It's not whether he is worth the contract: what I was trying to say was whether the burden that contract places on the team long term is an acceptable trade off for winning one WS, as it and the owners' spending policies virtually guarantee some bad years.  It was an overpay from the start, and it happens to look even worse than expected, but...trophy.

It sounds like we pretty much agree on it, though, at least the result.

Worth it to who? They are not paying him with my money.

But they're paying him with money that takes up part of a budget, meaning they won't use that budget space to get anything useful to improve the team going forward from now.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #180: September 02, 2021, 02:59:17 PM »
I would let him finish this year, sorry if that wasn't clear.
At that money he has several years with the team to come.  Three to be exact I believe. 

Offline hotshot

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #181: September 02, 2021, 02:59:48 PM »
Send him down to work on a knuckle ball. He ain't getting anyone out with his batting practice "fastball." Still has an OK slider but not many success stories built around a one-pitch repertoire.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #182: September 02, 2021, 03:01:47 PM »
Needs to find and use more off speed stuff.  Just doesn't throw it enough given that his fastball is not that fast.  A changeup or slow curve. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/player-scroll?player_id=571578#pitchTypes

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #183: September 02, 2021, 03:02:35 PM »
Send him down to work on a knuckle ball. He ain't getting anyone out with his batting practice "fastball." Still has an OK slider but not many success stories built around a one-pitch repertoire.
If he developed a change the fastball would be much better.  Look at the junk Espino throws. 

Offline YadiSTAR aka Smithian

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #184: September 02, 2021, 03:08:28 PM »
I maintain my opinion that they give him 5 minutes next season to get it right before he is off to the bullpen.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #185: September 02, 2021, 03:14:16 PM »
Needs to find and use more off speed stuff.  Just doesn't throw it enough given that his fastball is not that fast.  A changeup or slow curve. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/player-scroll?player_id=571578#pitchTypes


Fangraphs says his fastball and sinker are averaging over 92 mph. It's definitely on the low side of MLB starters, but he's not Kyle Hendricks.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #186: September 02, 2021, 03:53:19 PM »

Fangraphs says his fastball and sinker are averaging over 92 mph. It's definitely on the low side of MLB starters, but he's not Kyle Hendricks.
He can’t seem to locate it.  Hitters are not afraid of it. An off speed pitch would help him.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #187: September 02, 2021, 04:07:07 PM »
He can’t seem to locate it.  Hitters are not afraid of it. An off speed pitch would help him.

A second useable breaking pitch might be easier than trying to magically improve a changeup that he's been throwing a while but which just isn't that good.  Hitters seem to ignore it, and it doesn't help that much in keeping guys off balance as it's too close in speed to the slider.  You've only got 2 speeds to worry about with Corbin. 

But if he were to develop a second breaking pitch with a velo difference (even if it's a little slurvy, which might actually help if it's thrown often enough, as the spin looks more like a slider than a 12-6 - which doesn't work with his motion - would), that might help keep hitters off balance a little more. 

EDIT: I see you suggested this above.  Long way of saying "I agree."

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #188: September 02, 2021, 04:09:11 PM »
A second useable breaking pitch might be easier than trying to magically improve a changeup that he's been throwing a while but which just isn't that good.  Hitters seem to ignore it, and it doesn't help that much in keeping guys off balance as it's too close in speed to the slider.  You've only got 2 speeds to worry about with Corbin. 

But if he were to develop a second breaking pitch with a velo difference (even if it's a little slurvy, which might actually help if it's thrown often enough, as the spin looks more like a slider than a 12-6 - which doesn't work with his motion - would), that might help keep hitters off balance a little more.
Thanks.

Good points. I originally said a change up or a slow curve.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #189: September 02, 2021, 04:10:15 PM »
Thanks.

Good points. I originally said a change up or a slow curve.

Yep, I just saw that and edited.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #190: September 02, 2021, 04:14:13 PM »
He can’t seem to locate it.  Hitters are not afraid of it. An off speed pitch would help him.


Apologies if I made it seem like I was trying to prove you wrong. I full heartedly agree that he needs to develop another pitch. That Fangraphs article about his extension I think computes to not only his slider, but his fastball as well. He is getting less movement on the fastball, and with him releasing nearly 10 inches further away from the rubber, he is losing his ability to spot it like he used to. Dude needs to seriously look at his landing point and his release. BTW, I'm not qualified to actually suggest that, I'm just an average fan.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #191: September 02, 2021, 04:14:29 PM »
Yep, I just saw that and edited.
The link I posted originally shows him throwing a few curves. Not sure I have seen it. Of course I often turn off his starts.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #192: September 02, 2021, 04:15:50 PM »

Apologies if I made it seem like I was trying to prove you wrong. I full heartedly agree that he needs to develop another pitch. That Fangraphs article about his extension I think computes to not only his slider, but his fastball as well. He is getting less movement on the fastball, and with him releasing nearly 10 inches further away from the rubber, he is losing his ability to spot it like he used to. Dude needs to seriously look at his landing point and his release. BTW, I'm not qualified to actually suggest that, I'm just an average fan.
No problems.

It’s hard to know what changes the team has suggested and if he has tried any or is too stubborn at this point. Needs to try something new for sure.

Offline English Natsie

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #193: September 02, 2021, 05:29:40 PM »
More likely another soft tosser like Nolin or Espino.

That line reads rather differently on this side of the water....you don't like those players, then?.... :hysterical:

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #194: September 02, 2021, 07:18:03 PM »
That line reads rather differently on this side of the water....you don't like those players, then?.... :hysterical:
They are just not long term rotation guys. Cavalli is the Nats big pitching prospect and he has done well but it’s apparent they are not bringing him up this year. Team is not competitive so I don’t see the harm in letting Corbin try and figure it out.

Online Slateman

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #195: September 02, 2021, 07:33:24 PM »
He can’t seem to locate it.  Hitters are not afraid of it. An off speed pitch would help him.
He throws offspeed just under 50% of the time

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #196: September 02, 2021, 07:44:49 PM »
He throws offspeed just under 50% of the time
No one swings at the slider.  He needs a new pitch. 

Online Slateman

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #197: September 02, 2021, 07:50:40 PM »
No one swings at the slider.  He needs a new pitch. 
Batters are swing at his slider over 50% of the time

Offline welch

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #198: September 02, 2021, 07:54:30 PM »
He can’t seem to locate it.  Hitters are not afraid of it. An off speed pitch would help him.

I think that's spot on. Corbin throws as hard as Fedde and harder than Espino, and a 92-94 mph fastball would be OK -- not great, but OK -- if he could put his fastball precisely where it needs to go. I love Espino's giant curve, and he gets guys to miss his 89 mph fastball after that curve. If only Corbin could {fill in the obvious}

The problem with Corbin as a relief pitcher is that a reliever needs the precision that Corbin never has. Will he blow up in the first inning? The fourth? The sixth? Who can predict.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Patrick Corbin Consternation Thread
« Reply #199: September 02, 2021, 08:12:34 PM »
Batters are swing at his slider over 50% of the time
Not enough I guess. It’s hard to get by with two pitches if one of them is below average.