Author Topic: Roster Moves - 2021  (Read 4645 times)

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Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #125: June 18, 2021, 11:53:56 AM »
I've seen a few scouting reports that project him as more of a 2B or 3B at the major league level. Turner isn't going anywhere for at least a year, and we have an immediate need for an INF, so play him at 2nd, Harrison at 3rd, and have Mercer come off the bench.

I think Slateman's point - which I share - is that if the guy doesn't learn to play SS now, he's not going to ever have a chance to be a major league shortstop or he's going to have to learn via an ugly process while in MLB. 

Right now it looks to me like his bat and glove are roughly apace for playing SS at MLB level.  If you put him at 3B, his glove will fall behind.  And if you put him at 2B or 3B, he needs to hit significantly more to be a useful player.  Right now, he's fairly close to being a viable MLB shortstop, maybe a year away.  At 3B or 2B, his bat might need longer than that.

Online Slateman

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #126: June 18, 2021, 12:24:24 PM »
I think Slateman's point - which I share - is that if the guy doesn't learn to play SS now, he's not going to ever have a chance to be a major league shortstop or he's going to have to learn via an ugly process while in MLB. 

Right now it looks to me like his bat and glove are roughly apace for playing SS at MLB level.  If you put him at 3B, his glove will fall behind.  And if you put him at 2B or 3B, he needs to hit significantly more to be a useful player.  Right now, he's fairly close to being a viable MLB shortstop, maybe a year away.  At 3B or 2B, his bat might need longer than that.
Pretty much. Nats need to know if Garcia can play at SS to determine if we need a bridge to Infante or Cruz this offseason

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #127: June 18, 2021, 01:16:31 PM »
Garcia is barely 21 now and less than 2/3 of his minors experience is at SS.  He's not ready to be an MLB shortstop, though all signs suggest his glove will get there, which puts a ton less pressure on the bat.
I don't expect them to overthink this.  He plays if Castro's leave is a week or less.  That's not going to mess up his progression.  If it is longer, and he plays like a regular, maybe they say fine or look for a permanent fix. It's not like 3B wasn't something they needed to fix if they were actually back in contention.  And, if he lights things up, I don't think they are going to say "but we want you as a SS so you have to go to Rochester."   They deal with the unfortunate circumstance of having developed another young quality regular at that point.  My expectation is it'll either be short term or just a muddle and he will eventually get sent down.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #128: June 18, 2021, 01:56:19 PM »
I don't expect them to overthink this.  He plays if Castro's leave is a week or less.  That's not going to mess up his progression.  If it is longer, and he plays like a regular, maybe they say fine or look for a permanent fix. It's not like 3B wasn't something they needed to fix if they were actually back in contention.  And, if he lights things up, I don't think they are going to say "but we want you as a SS so you have to go to Rochester."   They deal with the unfortunate circumstance of having developed another young quality regular at that point.  My expectation is it'll either be short term or just a muddle and he will eventually get sent down.

This is fine, but if you're keeping him at 3B now, you acknowledge that if/when Turner leaves, Garcia - who is by far the best in-house option for a permanent fix now and will likely be even moreso when Turner's contract expires - will be less ready to play SS in the majors than he would be otherwise.

And 3B is hardly optimal, as keeping him there destroys any use for Kieboom.  It may be that there's no use to destroy, but the dude is 23 and  doing at least okay in AAA - which is hardly something to sneeze at.  Most teams would be highly reluctant to block a 23-year-old first round pick who's already in AAA absent an extremely good reason.  Unless Castro is out a while and Garcia's really tearing it up, buoying a team that doesn't show any signs of contending isn't doesn't qualify in my book.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #129: June 18, 2021, 02:00:46 PM »
It would be funny if Garcia ends up sticking at 2d and Kieboom flourishes at SS.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #130: June 18, 2021, 02:05:22 PM »
It would be funny if Garcia ends up sticking at 2d and Kieboom flourishes at SS.

It'd be amusing, but the possibility is pretty much an illustration of this whole discussion: Kieboom ain't gonna flourish at SS because he's 23 and isn't playing SS.

Offline imref

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #131: June 18, 2021, 02:10:22 PM »
I think Slateman's point - which I share - is that if the guy doesn't learn to play SS now, he's not going to ever have a chance to be a major league shortstop or he's going to have to learn via an ugly process while in MLB. 

Right now it looks to me like his bat and glove are roughly apace for playing SS at MLB level.  If you put him at 3B, his glove will fall behind.  And if you put him at 2B or 3B, he needs to hit significantly more to be a useful player.  Right now, he's fairly close to being a viable MLB shortstop, maybe a year away.  At 3B or 2B, his bat might need longer than that.

fair enough, but I assume they expect Castro to only be away for a short time.

Online Slateman

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #132: June 18, 2021, 02:19:17 PM »
It'd be amusing, but the possibility is pretty much an illustration of this whole discussion: Kieboom ain't gonna flourish at SS because he's 23 and isn't playing SS.
I think its pretty obvious  that Kieboom aint gonna flourish anywhere

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #133: June 18, 2021, 05:59:53 PM »
We may be overthinking this.

SS is unique, but it isn’t like they are putting him at 1B or in the outfield.

Online Slateman

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #134: June 18, 2021, 06:22:50 PM »
We may be overthinking this.

SS is unique, but it isn’t like they are putting him at 1B or in the outfield.
Heres the thing: This season is a wash for me already. I know that they won 4 in a row, and played .500 against two good teams, but the offense was awful. And at the beginning of this season, we knew that the starting pitching had to deliver. And I just dont think that Espino, Fedde, and Ross can replicate healthy Stras and Scherzer. Replicating 2019 is not a viable strategy.

Need to figure out of Garcia can play shortstop and if he can do it next year, or of the Nats need to figure out a bridge for a year or two. Or if they need to figure out something long term.

Garcia cant do that playing second base on the big league squad

Caveat to all of that is that this is a completely different conversation of the Nats win 3+ games against the Mets

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #135: June 19, 2021, 10:06:34 AM »
It looks like they knew it was likely to be just a game or two, so no damage done to Garcia's path. It sort of was a reward for him crushing it a bit lately.

My bad.  I think I saw Garcia down when Castro was back, but it turns out he was kept when Stevenson went on the 10 day IL for his oblique.

Oh, of course Voth activated for Harper, then Harper brought back as 27th man today.

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #136: June 19, 2021, 06:18:27 PM »
Roster reset for the record:

2 Cs - Gomes and Avila
7IF - Bell, Harrison1, Turner, Castro, RZ, Garcia2, and Mercer
3 OFs - Schwarber, Robles, Soto
4 Starting pitchers - Lester, Corbin, Fedde, and Ross
9 (10) RPs - Hand, Rainey, Finnegan, Suero, Clay, Voth, Miller, Espino3, J-rod, (Harper as 27th man)

1 Harrison is the backup outfielder at all 3 positions while Stevenson is on the DL.
2 Garcia on roster with Stevenson on the 10 day IL.
3 Both Espino and Rodriguez are likely available in the bullpen. Nats have not announced their starting pitcher for Tuesday (6/20) when the 5th starter slot comes up.  Could be one of Espino or Rodriguez, but Scherzer would be eligible to come off the IL.  That likely would result in J-Rod being sent down.

Regarding Tuesday's starter, there's this:
Quote
RHP Max Scherzer (groin inflammation)
Expected return: Possibly Tuesday
Scherzer threw a 40-pitch bullpen session on Saturday afternoon in between doubleheader games. Following his session, he said, "All good, see you Tuesday." The Nationals will evaluate how Scherzer feels on Sunday. (Last updated: June 19)
https://www.mlb.com/nationals/news/nationals-injuries-and-roster-moves?t=nationals-injury-report




Online Slateman

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #137: June 19, 2021, 08:08:54 PM »
Wait, when did Stevenson get hurt?

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #138: June 19, 2021, 08:41:43 PM »
Wait, when did Stevenson get hurt?
hurt his oblique last ph appearance. Mri showed a strain. Il 6/18, which is why Garcia is still around. Yadiel is not hitting in Rochester

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #139: June 20, 2021, 11:12:39 AM »
Baby shark is back today.

Online HondoKillebrew

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #140: June 20, 2021, 11:33:10 AM »

Offline imref

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #141: June 20, 2021, 11:34:01 AM »
 :babyshark:

Offline imref

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #142: June 20, 2021, 11:35:02 AM »
Braymar dfa’d. I assume he ends up back at Rochester.

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #143: June 20, 2021, 12:06:44 PM »
Baby shark is back today.
Garcia sent down.  Harper (27th man) returned to Rochester.  Order almost restored to the roster and the universe.  4 OFs, 6 IFs, 2 Cs, 13 Pitchers. 9 man bullpen for today with Max potentially back on Tuesday.  I'd expect one of Rodriguez or Espino held back in case Max isn't ready.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #144: June 20, 2021, 12:30:29 PM »
Espino has been dfa’d the other times right?   He’s proving to be a useful mlb pitcher.  I wonder if we’d lose him if we did that again?

Offline imref

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #145: June 20, 2021, 12:35:38 PM »
Espino has been dfa’d the other times right?   He’s proving to be a useful mlb pitcher.  I wonder if we’d lose him if we did that again?

I’d imagine Romero is the next dfa candidate

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #146: June 20, 2021, 12:52:08 PM »
Espino has been dfa’d the other times right?   He’s proving to be a useful mlb pitcher.  I wonder if we’d lose him if we did that again?
for now, Rodriguez can be sent down when Max is back.  No immediate need to add to the 40 man.  Maybe Machado or Rodriguez, the recent adds, would be axed before Romero.  As for the next add, I think OF and Catcher are the thin spots on the roster that could require juggling.  Just Barrera and Yadiel for healthy depth off the active roster.

Online welch

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #147: June 20, 2021, 01:03:09 PM »
hurt his oblique last ph appearance. Mri showed a strain. Il 6/18, which is why Garcia is still around. Yadiel is not hitting in Rochester

Yadiel will hit in Rochester, but he can't play CF or pinch-run. Handy to have Harrison as backup CF and PH, with Harrison, Castro, Garcia, and Mercer for 2B and 3B.

Future: sign Turner. Otherwise, the Nats have no 2B, SS, and 3B. Kieboom has failed. Why depend on Garcia being as good as Turner in the same way that Kieboom was expected to be the next Rendon? And who plays 3B next?

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #148: June 21, 2021, 09:01:20 AM »
Espino has been dfa’d the other times right?   He’s proving to be a useful mlb pitcher.  I wonder if we’d lose him if we did that again?


Yeah, I'd imagine he'd be gone.  There enough teams looking for help that he'd get a major league deal somewhere.  A 2.28 from a guy who can handle multiple innings is what it is, even coming from a short, thick, inexperienced 34-year-old junkballer. But Espino can be optioned if what is needed is a spot on the 26. 

for now, Rodriguez can be sent down when Max is back.  No immediate need to add to the 40 man.  Maybe Machado or Rodriguez, the recent adds, would be axed before Romero.  As for the next add, I think OF and Catcher are the thin spots on the roster that could require juggling.  Just Barrera and Yadiel for healthy depth off the active roster.

He's out of options.  Doesn't matter if you're trying to get a 40-man space at the same time.  But if you need a 26 space and not a 40, Espino might go first because he has options.  And Machado should go first from the 40 if that's the need.

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Re: Roster Moves - 2021
« Reply #149: June 21, 2021, 03:40:57 PM »
I think on some level, Espino's earned the opportunity to stay and fill some sort of role. Voth had kinda filled in the Javy Guerra role, but they've both been good enough to be on the big league roster the rest of the way, at least for now.