Author Topic: Bullpen 2021  (Read 1691 times)

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Online DPMOmaha

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #75: May 13, 2021, 02:29:06 PM »
Yes, but he actually blew 2 save opportunities on Saturday (9th and 10th innings), although in Slate's precious statistical salad it only counts as 1 BS.
No, he only blew one. The 10th, he was in line to be the winning pitcher. Save wasn't on the table at that point.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #76: May 13, 2021, 04:36:48 PM »
No, he only blew one. The 10th, he was in line to be the winning pitcher. Save wasn't on the table at that point.
Whatever.  I understand the rule, but was pointing out that he had a chance to redeem himself by protecting another lead.

Offline Expos

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #77: May 13, 2021, 04:38:10 PM »
Please be specific and name one high priced FA that was not worth the money he was paid. I cannot recall.

Literally everyone of these guys were very good relievers until they got to Washington. As soon as they got here they sucked for 1 or 2 seasons and we cut them loose.

Will Harris*
Rafael Soriano
Joe Blanton
Jerry Blevins
Casey Janssen
Jonathan Papelbon
Ryan Madsen
Tony Sipp
Hunter Strickland
Kyle Barraclough

Guys we signed who were very good in pervious organizations, signed with us and sucked, cut loose and went on to have success.

Trevor Rosenthal
Oliver Perez
Shawn Kelly
Yusmerio Petit
Mark Melencon
Brandon Kintzler
Greg Holland
Kelvin Hererra

Guys we let leave who had success after:

Craig Stammen
Tyler Clippard
Blake Treinen
AJ Cole

Like I said, we are the black hole for releivers.  Always have been.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #78: May 13, 2021, 04:48:00 PM »
to be fair Shawn kelley did have one awesome season with us, one bad season and then a good season where he got cut because rizzo was pissed off

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #79: May 13, 2021, 05:37:28 PM »
Soriano was good here

Blanton was 36

Blevins was outstanding against lefties

Janssen was declining when we got him

Papelbon was 34 when we got him and declining

Madson was 36 when we got him (and the Dodgers got less out of him than us)

Sipp's season with us wasnt even his worst

Strickland was garbage

Barraclough wasnt good when we got him

Rosenthal was still recovering and sucked with the two othet teams he signed with after us

Perez was cut loose at 36 and had one good season after that

Shawn Kelly threw a temper tantrum on the mound because he gave up a home run

Melancon was good here, signed a 3 year/40 million deal, during which, he accumulated 15 saves (blowing 9) and post ed a 3.67 ERA with the Giants

Kintzler had a 3.59 ERA, he got traded cus he was talking crap about the manager.

Holland didnt want to be here. He wanted to close and we had Sean Doolittle

Herrera tore a ligament in his foot and has a 6+ ERA since leaving Washington

Stammen - Honestly, no arguement here. Though he missed the entire 2016 season due to injury and was 32

Clippard's success is far more recent. Everyone forgets that after being traded from here, he had four teams in one and a half seasons,  during which he posted an ERA much higher than here. He reinvented himself at the age of 34.

Treinen - Maybe the only real example you have

AJ Cole - A serviceable reliever. So he and Voth are about the same.

Honestly most of your "black hole", examples are simply age and inuries.

Offline imref

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #80: May 13, 2021, 05:38:09 PM »
Madson was lights out in 2017 after we traded for him (1.37 ERA / 0.814 WHIP in 20 appearances / 19.2 IP). He sucked in 2018 for us, and for Toronto after we traded him, and was out of baseball after struggling early in 2019.

Stammen is the big one that got away, I really wish we had kept him.

AJ Cole had some success as a reliever, but it's not like he was dominant - 4.26 ERA in 2018 for the Yankees and 3.81 for Cleveland in 2019. His best year was 2020 for Toronto.

Offline sixthree175

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #81: May 14, 2021, 04:27:41 AM »
Rosenthal has a special place in my heart -- he almost single handedly cost our team a post season bid (i.e. World Series championship) so early in the season before he got cut loose.  To add insult to injury, I heard they gave him a World Series (Championship) ring and he actually accepted it.  How can he live with himself?

Don't forgot Matt Albers.  That dude was a MAJOR asset in 2017.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #82: May 14, 2021, 10:32:25 AM »
Madsen, Strickland, and Papelbon were all trades, not free agents.  Barraclough, Janssen, and I believe Blanton were flyers coming off down years but had previously been effective. They were not major free agents.  They were more throw spaghetti at a wall. 

Melancon was not cut loose. He left when his contract expired and he went to the highest bidder. I think Pettit and Holland were in the same boat.  I don't believe Herrera was effective after he left here.

Treinen of course left in the trade that got us Doo and Madsen.  Actually, I think Melancon was a trade pick up, maybe for Felipe Rivero?    Stammen I believe was hurt his last year here and brought into SD on a flyer.  Clippard has pitched after here, but his best years I believe were here.  He's actually a great example of an FA signing or trade acquisition. We converted him to a reliever where he was fantastic. 


Offline ZimW1N

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #83: May 14, 2021, 10:51:19 AM »
So when does Voth for closer start picking up steam?

Offline imref

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #84: May 14, 2021, 11:02:39 AM »
So when does Voth for closer start picking up steam?

yesterday

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #85: May 14, 2021, 11:31:55 AM »

Offline imref

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #86: May 23, 2021, 09:13:18 AM »
Hudson with a 1.13 ERA, 20Ks, and has stranded all 5 inherited runners in 16 IP.

Offline Expos

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #87: June 06, 2021, 04:36:29 PM »
Another year. Another terrible bullpen built by Rizzo.

This entire pitching staff is horrendous.

Max, Suero, Hudson, McGowan, Voth, Espino and Hand are the only capable arms on the team.

Strasburg, Corbin, Lester, Ross, Fedde, Finnegan, Clay, Harris and Rainey all suck.

We have:

Starters:

1- Scherzer
2-
3-
4-
5- Lester/Ross/Fedde

Closer- Hand
Setup- Hudson
Suero
Voth
McGowin
Espino

This team is in alot of trouble.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #88: June 06, 2021, 04:42:27 PM »
Well. July should be interesting. We've seen this team tread water when it was terrible, and build for a series run. I've never watched a bust-it-up-and-rebuild effort.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #89: June 06, 2021, 05:02:11 PM »
Lester and Fedde seem fine for 4/5 starters

Harris hasnt been healthy

Finnegan, Suero, Rainey, and McGowin seem like typical middle relief, in that they're wildly inconsistent

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #90: June 06, 2021, 05:38:15 PM »
Lately, Finnegan and Clay have been showing why they had not hit the majors before we picked them up.  Still, they are / should be the 5th/ 6th arms in the bullpen, even excluding Harris, who has never been healthy.  Right now, I'd move Voth and McGowin up the pecking order with Hudson high leverage and Hand closer except against the NYY. 

Fedde is absolutely fine when healthy.  Lester is fine too.  In a lot of ways, I think the line up is more :smh: than the pitchers.

Offline welch

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #91: June 06, 2021, 05:49:35 PM »
Lester and Fedde seem fine for 4/5 starters

Harris hasnt been healthy

Finnegan, Suero, Rainey, and McGowin seem like typical middle relief, in that they're wildly inconsistent

Agree about Lester and Fedde.

Rainey is awful. He's not been good this year, and not good his whole career. As best I remember, the Reds traded him because he had a 98 mph fastball but not much control. That hasn't changed. Career ERA over 6.

Suero has been pretty good since he came up, and maybe McGowin is worth something as a middle reliever. Clay is a goner.

I went back to the 1953 - 1957 Nats stats wondering how many runs they averaged, since they were some of the worst Washington baseball teams ever. The stats reminded me that teams in the 1950s often had a relief pitcher, or two, who pitched a couple innings at the end of the game. However, the rest of the staff sometimes started, sometimes relieved.

A modern staff fills out with one-inning relievers. Today was a game that died with one-inning relievers. After Voth went out and Suero pitched his inning, the game crumbled: just count them off, until Davey put McGowin in for the 8th and 9th. The Nats needed a Tex Clevenger or Hal Griggs or Chuck Stobbs...

Offline welch

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #92: June 06, 2021, 05:53:36 PM »
Incidentally, the 2021 Nats score worse than the worst of the 1950s terrible Nationals / Senators teams. In 1957, a deader than dead last team, averaged 3.9 runs. The 1956 team, a 59-95 team, averaged 4.2 runs a game. The 1955 team, last place with 101 losses and only 55 wins, averaged 3.88 runs.

This is a terrible season.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #93: June 07, 2021, 12:06:07 PM »

Rainey is awful. He's not been good this year, and not good his whole career. As best I remember, the Reds traded him because he had a 98 mph fastball but not much control. That hasn't changed. Career ERA over 6.


Rainey had a 2.66 last year.  He's feast or famine, but he's been useful occasionally.  He also has a minor league option remaining, so it's a complete mystery as to why he's still in the majors.

Offline imref

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #94: June 11, 2021, 07:41:18 AM »
Justin Miller in Rochester this year:
   
0.59 ERA, 15.1 IP, 27Ks, 0.78 WHIP, 5 saves

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #95: June 11, 2021, 12:51:47 PM »
Justin Miller in Rochester this year:
   
0.59 ERA, 15.1 IP, 27Ks, 0.78 WHIP, 5 saves

If they trade him now, he won’t have a chance to overused up here

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #96: June 11, 2021, 09:14:38 PM »
I honestly believe this is a pretty good bullpen that is simply overworked

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Bullpen 2021
« Reply #97: June 11, 2021, 10:03:17 PM »
Espino needs a thread or something.  For a low velocity journeyman, he's been better than can be expected at every situation he's needed.  And seems totally fine being DFAd and returning as needed and appreciative of every chance he gets.  Works fast, and throws lots of strikes.