Poll

How long in 2021 will Carter Kieboom last as the Nats third baseman?

Not to the end of Spring Training.  Replaced by trade, or someone beats him out.
5 (20.8%)
He'll be replaced by the end of May.  Quick hook after flailing.
10 (41.7%)
He'll be replaced by the end of July.  Either we upgrade to contend or want to try another guy we control next year.
0 (0%)
He'll make past 7/31, but we will try to another guy as a regular at 3rd by the end of the year.
0 (0%)
He will be a regular the entire year, either at 3rd or another infield position.
9 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Author Topic: Baseball Experiment - Carter Kieboom at 3d base (new poll)  (Read 3051 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Sirjesse

  • Posts: 137
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #25: February 07, 2021, 08:35:45 PM »
I sure would like Franco. He would fit nice in the six or seven slot, maybe let Castro get to the number two hole depending how Martinez wants to play it. Shoot, if Kieboom out hits him he can have the job. But I would sleep Better at night with more options than Kieboom and Garcia.

Online Sirjesse

  • Posts: 137
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #26: February 07, 2021, 10:35:56 PM »
Maybe over his career.

I think he had a decent year last year in KC? Would be cheap insurance.

Oh yes indeed.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 56507
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #27: February 08, 2021, 08:15:04 AM »
Franco is basically Danny Espinosa but with garbage defense. Tgeres no reason to crush a highly touted prospect for Franco. Franco doesnt get us into the playoffs.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18800
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #28: February 08, 2021, 08:19:17 AM »
Franco is basically Danny Espinosa but with garbage defense. Tgeres no reason to crush a highly touted prospect for Franco. Franco doesnt get us into the playoffs.
Minor league deal. Insurance.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 56507
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #29: February 08, 2021, 09:11:34 AM »
Minor league deal. Insurance.
Insurance to what? Franco doesnt win you any more or less games than Kieboom. The lineup is still the same. Third base is still hitting 7th and still posting a sub-100 wRC+.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18800
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #30: February 08, 2021, 09:18:57 AM »
Insurance to what? Franco doesnt win you any more or less games than Kieboom. The lineup is still the same. Third base is still hitting 7th and still posting a sub-100 wRC+.
2020 WAR

Franco. 1.1
Kieboom. 0.3


Online Slateman

  • Posts: 56507
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #31: February 08, 2021, 10:10:19 AM »
2020 WAR

Franco. 1.1
Kieboom. 0.3


And if you're putting any stock in a 60 game season, you're an idiot. Franco was worth -0.5 in 2019. And that wasnt his first negative season of WAR in his career.

Outside of a 60 game sample, Franco has hit .251/.305/.436 hitter. He's a replacement level player with no upside. He doesnt even platoon well.

The BEST case scenario for starting Franco is you are in the exact same position if you start Kieboom. There is zero upside to starting Franco. There is only downside in completely destroying any of Kieboom's value and confidence. And you still have to trade for a middle of the order bat in order to compete this season.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18800
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #32: February 08, 2021, 10:11:58 AM »
And if you're putting any stock in a 60 game season, you're an idiot. Franco was worth -0.5 in 2019. And that wasnt his first negative season of WAR in his career.

Outside of a 60 game sample, Franco has hit .251/.305/.436 hitter. He's a replacement level player with no upside. He doesnt even platoon well.

The BEST case scenario for starting Franco is you are in the exact same position if you start Kieboom. There is zero upside to starting Franco. There is only downside in completely destroying any of Kieboom's value and confidence. And you still have to trade for a middle of the order bat in order to compete this season.
I don’t think you understand insurance. 

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 56507
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #33: February 08, 2021, 10:15:26 AM »
I don’t think you understand insurance. 
You dont buy insurance you dont need.

Here is the depth chart if you sign Franco:
Kieboom
Castro moving to third and playing Harrison at second
Castro moving to third and playing Garcia at second
Making a trade for a third baseman
Drew Mendoza
Franco


Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18800
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #34: February 08, 2021, 10:26:36 AM »
You dont buy insurance you dont need.

Here is the depth chart if you sign Franco:
Kieboom
Castro moving to third and playing Harrison at second
Castro moving to third and playing Garcia at second
Making a trade for a third baseman
Drew Mendoza
Franco
Wow. I hope all those alternatives don’t destroy Kieboom’s confidence.   :hysterical:

Garcia could use time in the minors to improve his hitting. If Harrison plays every day then who takes his place on the bench. You sign Franco or some equivalent player to a minor league deal and then put them in Rochester in case needed due to bad performance or injuries. If they have no depth at Triple A to call up you will be the first one complaining.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 56507
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #35: February 08, 2021, 10:31:10 AM »
Franco was already a malcontent in Philly on a major league roster. Pretty sure he would be worse in the minors.

Yeah, hard pass on Franco. This team has plenty of "insurance" options at third without adding Franco. Why not get Todd Frazier? Or Eric Sogard? Or Jedd Gyorko?

Because they're trash. Stop going after trash.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 4045
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #36: February 08, 2021, 11:41:55 AM »
Franco was already a malcontent in Philly on a major league roster. Pretty sure he would be worse in the minors.

Yeah, hard pass on Franco. This team has plenty of "insurance" options at third without adding Franco. Why not get Todd Frazier? Or Eric Sogard? Or Jedd Gyorko?

Because they're trash. Stop going after trash.

As much wishful thinking as that involves, and perhaps even common sense, this is the team that put Emilio Bonifacio into major league baseball games last year.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 30747
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #37: February 08, 2021, 12:09:47 PM »
You dont buy insurance you dont need.

Here is the depth chart if you sign Franco:
Kieboom
Castro moving to third and playing Harrison at second
Harrison playing 3d
Castro moving to third and playing Garcia at second
Making a trade for a third baseman
Drew Mendoza
Franco


Harrison can handle 3d.  So could Jordy Mercer.  And I'd sign Gyorko. 

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18800
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #38: February 08, 2021, 12:09:52 PM »
Franco was already a malcontent in Philly on a major league roster. Pretty sure he would be worse in the minors.

Yeah, hard pass on Franco. This team has plenty of "insurance" options at third without adding Franco. Why not get Todd Frazier? Or Eric Sogard? Or Jedd Gyorko?

Because they're trash. Stop going after trash.
Never heard a thing about Franco being a malcontent. Just the opposite I think. Source?

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18800
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #39: February 08, 2021, 12:10:29 PM »
Harrison can handle 3d.  So could Jordy Mercer.
They also signed Hernan Perez as INSURANCE.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 30747
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #40: February 08, 2021, 12:12:08 PM »
They also signed Hernan Perez as INSURANCE.
flat out, if you are bringing in another 3d baseman, Gyorko is much better than Franco.

Offline DCFan

  • Posts: 16720
  • What are you dense?
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #41: February 08, 2021, 12:12:39 PM »
They also signed Hernan Perez as INSURANCE.

Yabut can he deliver the key hits like say Eaton?  :crackup:

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18800
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #42: February 08, 2021, 12:17:40 PM »
flat out, if you are bringing in another 3d baseman, Gyorko is much better than Franco.
I’m fine with that.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 56507
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #43: February 08, 2021, 12:25:49 PM »
Harrison can handle 3d.  So could Jordy Mercer.  And I'd sign Gyorko. 
So ... we already have more insurance. But we still got people wanting Franco.

Here's the plan at third base: Barring an injury or Garcia performing like Juan Soto in ST, Kieboom will be the starting third baseman. Kieboom needs to be given AT least 60 games. Probably closer to 80 or 90.

If after that, he still cant hit for crap, and we still have a legit shot at a deep postseason run, then we can trade Rutledge or Cavali for Bryant.

Anything other than that is a waste of the team's time and resources.

Offline aspenbubba

  • Posts: 4841
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #44: February 08, 2021, 01:32:34 PM »
So ... we already have more insurance. But we still got people wanting Franco.

Here's the plan at third base: Barring an injury or Garcia performing like Juan Soto in ST, Kieboom will be the starting third baseman. Kieboom needs to be given AT least 60 games. Probably closer to 80 or 90.

If after that, he still cant hit for crap, and we still have a legit shot at a deep postseason run, then we can trade Rutledge or Cavali for Bryant.

Anything other than that is a waste of the team's time and resources.

Can anyone tell me if the LAD are close to the luxury tax because of the Bauer signing and why not sign J. Turner with deferred income in 24 & 25 like we did with Lester.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 4045
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #45: February 08, 2021, 01:40:55 PM »
Can anyone tell me if the LAD are close to the luxury tax because of the Bauer signing and why not sign J. Turner with deferred income in 24 & 25 like we did with Lester.

They're way over it after signing Bauer, but why would they care?  It's not like they can't afford it, and they weren't over in '19 (and wouldn't have been in '20 had there been a tax last year). 

Online Greg_SRT

  • Posts: 3830
  • Getting 2019 Vibes
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #46: February 08, 2021, 01:45:45 PM »
Carter as I see no reason he shouldn’t either get the job or be part of a trade to get a 3b

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 30747
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #47: February 08, 2021, 03:48:05 PM »
They're way over it after signing Bauer, but why would they care?  It's not like they can't afford it, and they weren't over in '19 (and wouldn't have been in '20 had there been a tax last year). 
at this point, the number I saw on Cot's was $27MM over the threshold.  Yes, they reset last year.  Isn't there a second threshold for real gross overspenders? 

Next year, they have Jansen, Kershaw, Seager off the books.  Bellinger I think is arb 3 of 4.  Conceivably, they could reset next year.

Offline aspenbubba

  • Posts: 4841
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #48: February 08, 2021, 03:53:43 PM »
at this point, the number I saw on Cot's was $27MM over the threshold.  Yes, they reset last year.  Isn't there a second threshold for real gross overspenders? 

Next year, they have Jansen, Kershaw, Seager off the books.  Bellinger I think is arb 3 of 4.  Conceivably, they could reset next year.

Won't they try to re-sign 2 of 3 with Jansen being the odd man out?

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 4045
Re: Who will be the Opening Day Third Baseman?
« Reply #49: February 08, 2021, 04:05:23 PM »
at this point, the number I saw on Cot's was $27MM over the threshold.  Yes, they reset last year.  Isn't there a second threshold for real gross overspenders? 

Next year, they have Jansen, Kershaw, Seager off the books.  Bellinger I think is arb 3 of 4.  Conceivably, they could reset next year.

Yes, if you go $40 million over, the marginal rate is significantly higher, and also your first draft pick gets moved back 10 spots.

at this point, the number I saw on Cot's was $27MM over the threshold.  Yes, they reset last year.  Isn't there a second threshold for real gross overspenders? 

Next year, they have Jansen, Kershaw, Seager off the books.  Bellinger I think is arb 3 of 4.  Conceivably, they could reset next year.

I think paying 2 years - with less in '22 after Jansen's off - is more likely.  Price's deal is up after '22, which seems to be the way to get back under.  Question really is what the thresholds will be down the line.