Author Topic: 2021 Hall of Fame  (Read 539 times)

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Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18280
Re: 2021 Hall of Fame
« Reply #25: December 07, 2020, 04:32:19 PM »
maybe in philly, but not once he got to AZ.  even in philly, he went to the ws.

Schilling's case is a rate case case for the regular seasons rather than a counting stats case, and is more advanced stats than pitching triple crown.  Yes, he hit 3000 Ks, but otherwise, you have to look at his ERA adjusted for the era he pitched in and you have to look at things like K v. BB. 

best K:BB ratio of  any pitcher with 3000 Ks. Carlton's ERA was 13% better than league average for his career, while Schilling's was 19%, etc...  I still will not say he's better, but I will say you have to look beyond counting and unadjusted rate stats to assess his case.

Of course, the special sauce is his post-season marks that give him a kick towards the HoF beyond the regular season, but his regular season stats establish he was a great pitcher in an era of juiced balls and players.
Schilling benefited from an expanded playoff but you make some good points.  He deserves to be in.  But not as much as Carlton.  4 Cy Young Awards and finished in the top 4 a couple of other times.  Six one hitters.  10 All Star appearances.  254 complete games to 83 for Schilling.  It's quite possible his ERA and other stats would have been better pitching less innings like guys do now. 

EDIT:  If Carlton had not been so stubborn and pitched those last 4 years or so when he clearly didn't have it his career ERA would be much closer to 3.00. 

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 18280
Re: 2021 Hall of Fame
« Reply #26: December 07, 2020, 04:33:22 PM »
My point is that you have to look at all the teams they played for, not just the Phillies.
BTW, Carlton was the only pitcher to win the Cy Young on a last place team, the Phillies. He set a record in accounting for nearly half (46%) of his team's wins, when he won 27 games for the last-place (59–97) Phillies in 1972.
Not saying Schilling doesn't belong, but Carlton was better.
The 27 win year was phenomenal.  Of course he followed that with a 20 loss season. 

Offline bluestreak

  • Posts: 10594
Re: 2021 Hall of Fame
« Reply #27: December 10, 2020, 12:26:14 PM »
Is there a real question that Carlton is a better pitcher Schilling?

There is not a group of people more smug and self-important than HoF voters. Never have i encountered a group more holier than thou, that love telling you that they can vote for this and you can't

That being said, I think the thing that turned off some writers was when he suggested hanging journalists. If they want to make him wait because of that, I am not going to be upset. There were more than 10 worthy people on the ballot in years before this one.