Author Topic: Did Rizzo's contract situation affect his decisions at the deadline?  (Read 353 times)

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Offline Slateman

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For those who dont know, Rizzo's contract expires at the end of the season.


Did he feel handicapped at the deadline?

On the one hand, he could have wheeled and dealed like his job was on the line. There were deals to be had and the Nats had enough to make a big move.

But perhaps Rizzo didnt want to do that because he believes he will be here long term, and thus doesnt want go deplete the system.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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For those who dont know, Rizzo's contract expires at the end of the season.


Did he feel handicapped at the deadline?

On the one hand, he could have wheeled and dealed like his job was on the line. There were deals to be had and the Nats had enough to make a big move.

But perhaps Rizzo didnt want to do that because he believes he will be here long term, and thus doesnt want go deplete the system.

Or he thinks that if they dissapoint this year (not making the playoffs and selling off pieces), then the lerners would let him walk after this year.

Offline imref

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I can’t imagine anything more shocking than Rizzo and Davey not returning next year.

Offline aspenbubba

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There were probably no deals worth making for a team that wasn’t going anywhere this year. Not enough return for the expiring contracts like Cabrera Kendricks Eaton et al.

Offline Slateman

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There were probably no deals worth making for a team that wasn’t going anywhere this year. Not enough return for the expiring contracts like Cabrera Kendricks Eaton et al.
If you werent going anywhere, and you know it, then getting anything for those players is worth it.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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A quote on Twitter from the @FederalBaseball acount:

Quote
"We went in there and, in my opinion, we weren't playing well enough for me to go ask ownership to add payroll & to give away prospects to make any kind of big, significant move for a short-term player this year."- #Nats' GM Mike Rizzo on trade deadline - @1067theFan @JunksRadio

Offline Slateman

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Then he should have sold what he had

Offline rileyn

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Rizzo knows where he stands.  He will be back.  If anything, the fact that we didn't do anything makes that more clear.  This year is an abortion.  The best outcome now is to get the best draft position.

Offline Slateman

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Rizzo knows where he stands.  He will be back.  If anything, the fact that we didn't do anything makes that more clear.  This year is an abortion.  The best outcome now is to get the best draft position.
Wouldnt that entail getting rid of veterans and playing prospects?

Offline rileyn

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Wouldnt that entail getting rid of veterans and playing prospects?
Have you been watching the games?  I think we are doing just fine with the guys we have now, at securing a better draft position.

Offline Slateman

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Have you been watching the games?  I think we are doing just fine with the guys we have now, at securing a better draft position.

Currently we would have the fourth "best" pick in the 2021 MLB draft. I could see that becoming the fifth, as the DBacks sold at the deadline. And I seriously doubt this team, as currently constructed, can get the worst or second to worst record in the league. Which is all that really matters because everyone after those picks is likely a mid level player, or a huge project.

Also, this team doesn't just need better draft position. Whoever they draft won't be at the MLB level for 3-5 years. We have a number of draft picks this year who are getting no development time, and need it. We have guys in the system that would greatly benefit from playing time. The bottom line here is that Rizzo is responsible for player development, not just a draft pick.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Currently we would have the fourth "best" pick in the 2021 MLB draft. I could see that becoming the fifth, as the DBacks sold at the deadline. And I seriously doubt this team, as currently constructed, can get the worst or second to worst record in the league. Which is all that really matters because everyone after those picks is likely a mid level player, or a huge project.

Also, this team doesn't just need better draft position. Whoever they draft won't be at the MLB level for 3-5 years. We have a number of draft picks this year who are getting no development time, and need it. We have guys in the system that would greatly benefit from playing time. The bottom line here is that Rizzo is responsible for player development, not just a draft pick.

All they really need to do is put Scherzer on the IL.  They're 5-3 in his starts, 7-19 in everyone else's. 

Offline Slateman

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All they really need to do is put Scherzer on the IL.  They're 5-3 in his starts, 7-19 in everyone else's. 
Pretty sure the union would flip their crap if a big vet got put on the IL when he wasn't hurt.

That being said, I really don't see this team turning it around. We're halfway through and the offense is basically the top two hitters, and 3 out of our 5 starters have Triple A ERAs. I think Rizzo should DFA anyone who obviously isn't coming back next season, and call up young our minor leaguers to get reps.

25 games, even in this bastardization of a season, would be incredibly educational. Yan Gomes showing Israel Pineda on how he preps with pitchers would be invaluable for future seasons. Corbin talking with Seth Romero and Tim Cate about being a lefty. Scherzer helping out Jackson Rutledge and talking workouts and offseason prep with Cavali. And I want to give Kieboom every opportunity to improve. He has to know what to work on this offseason, and we need to give him a chance to build his confidence next season.

But, to the topic at hand, it feels like Rizzo stood pat, and that doesn't seem to be a good idea. Not even a minor move, either way. Very uncharacteristic of Rizzo, and I'm wondering if his contract status had something to do with it.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Pretty sure the union would flip their crap if a big vet got put on the IL when he wasn't hurt.

That being said, I really don't see this team turning it around. We're halfway through and the offense is basically the top two hitters, and 3 out of our 5 starters have Triple A ERAs. I think Rizzo should DFA anyone who obviously isn't coming back next season, and call up young our minor leaguers to get reps.

25 games, even in this bastardization of a season, would be incredibly educational. Yan Gomes showing Israel Pineda on how he preps with pitchers would be invaluable for future seasons. Corbin talking with Seth Romero and Tim Cate about being a lefty. Scherzer helping out Jackson Rutledge and talking workouts and offseason prep with Cavali. And I want to give Kieboom every opportunity to improve. He has to know what to work on this offseason, and we need to give him a chance to build his confidence next season.

But, to the topic at hand, it feels like Rizzo stood pat, and that doesn't seem to be a good idea. Not even a minor move, either way. Very uncharacteristic of Rizzo, and I'm wondering if his contract status had something to do with it.

I think Scherzer would flip a crap before it even got to the union, but the point is the same - this team basically only has two starters that give it even a chance to win, and they're losing Corbin's starts too. 

On Rizzo's contract, I'm hesitant to attribute it to that.  The team was in exactly the position where they were too far out to justify buying but had too few salable assets worth anything.  Most of the dudes who might be useful to other teams and are arguably expendable are struggling (Eaton, Doolittle, Cabrera, Sanchez, Kendrick) or injured (Castro).  I'm a little surprised that both catchers stayed, but that's about it, and neither of them would have brought a big haul. 

Offline rileyn

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Pretty sure the union would flip their crap if a big vet got put on the IL when he wasn't hurt.

That being said, I really don't see this team turning it around. We're halfway through and the offense is basically the top two hitters, and 3 out of our 5 starters have Triple A ERAs. I think Rizzo should DFA anyone who obviously isn't coming back next season, and call up young our minor leaguers to get reps.

25 games, even in this bastardization of a season, would be incredibly educational. Yan Gomes showing Israel Pineda on how he preps with pitchers would be invaluable for future seasons. Corbin talking with Seth Romero and Tim Cate about being a lefty. Scherzer helping out Jackson Rutledge and talking workouts and offseason prep with Cavali. And I want to give Kieboom every opportunity to improve. He has to know what to work on this offseason, and we need to give him a chance to build his confidence next season.

But, to the topic at hand, it feels like Rizzo stood pat, and that doesn't seem to be a good idea. Not even a minor move, either way. Very uncharacteristic of Rizzo, and I'm wondering if his contract status had something to do with it.

The only one worth bringing up in this BS season is Keiboom.  He needs to be playing every day, but I think there is something else going on there.  He strikes me has having no confidence (just by observing the way he carries himself) and I would bet all parties agreed it was best thing to do.  Not a good sign.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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A quote on Twitter from the @FederalBaseball acount:

Kind of appalled by this.  The relevant question was, to what extent did he look into moving veterans with expiring contracts, and all he and the questioner were talking about was adding payroll.  Delusional, I/M/O.  Somebody flinched at doing the right thing.  It's emotionally tough to sell Kendrick and Suzuki, and their play may have limited the value of Cabrera and Eaton (and certainly Thames), but it was a seller's market, you have a thin minor league system, and there was talent available to strengthen it.  I hate  to say the Bill Belichick approach, but it worked well (we even have the Brady comparable in Soto).

Offline Natsinpwc

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Kind of appalled by this.  The relevant question was, to what extent did he look into moving veterans with expiring contracts, and all he and the questioner were talking about was adding payroll.  Delusional, I/M/O.  Somebody flinched at doing the right thing.  It's emotionally tough to sell Kendrick and Suzuki, and their play may have limited the value of Cabrera and Eaton (and certainly Thames), but it was a seller's market, you have a thin minor league system, and there was talent available to strengthen it.  I hate  to say the Bill Belichick approach, but it worked well (we even have the Brady comparable in Soto).
The Lerners won’t let Rizzo sell.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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The Lerners won’t let Rizzo sell.

If that's true, it's pretty silly.  There's never been a better season to tank: no fans in the stands, a short season that many fans view as semi-phony, a ton of other things going on in the world, several clear high-end college pitcher talents at the top of the draft.  TINSTAAPP, but the minor league system is pretty much bare right now across the board.

Offline UMDNats

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Rizzo knows where he stands.  He will be back.  If anything, the fact that we didn't do anything makes that more clear.  This year is an abortion.  The best outcome now is to get the best draft position.

What's to stop Mark Lerner from saying, "You got lucky in 2019, we're entering a rebuild, your drafts have been horrible, I'm going to save money on the GM position and promote JDP?"

JDP and his staff are the only ones in the org finding young players. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Mark Lerner doesn't want to give Rizzo a 5-year deal for like $3 million a year when he can just hire JDP or Kris Kline for $600k.

Offline Natsinpwc

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If that's true, it's pretty silly.  There's never been a better season to tank: no fans in the stands, a short season that many fans view as semi-phony, a ton of other things going on in the world, several clear high-end college pitcher talents at the top of the draft.  TINSTAAPP, but the minor league system is pretty much bare right now across the board.
They thought they could pull out a miracle like last year. And don’t want to trade guys who helped them win a championship. 

Offline Slateman

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I think Scherzer would flip a crap before it even got to the union, but the point is the same - this team basically only has two starters that give it even a chance to win, and they're losing Corbin's starts too. 

On Rizzo's contract, I'm hesitant to attribute it to that.  The team was in exactly the position where they were too far out to justify buying but had too few salable assets worth anything.  Most of the dudes who might be useful to other teams and are arguably expendable are struggling (Eaton, Doolittle, Cabrera, Sanchez, Kendrick) or injured (Castro).  I'm a little surprised that both catchers stayed, but that's about it, and neither of them would have brought a big haul. 
I mean … Scherzer and the union are the same. But yea, you're not wrong.

The team really wasn't that far out with expanded playoffs. Now maybe that's not worth it, but if that's the case, then selling your expiring contracts would have been the play.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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They thought they could pull out a miracle like last year. And don’t want to trade guys who helped them win a championship.

It's possible, but I'm not willing to infer all that from silence.  I'm hardly a Lerner or Rizzo apologist, but I'm just not seeing what people thought the team would get in trade.  Guys who looked like potentially useful trade pieces - especially Sanchez - are the reason the team sucks. 

When teams like Oakland are able to pick up that same type of guy, but with both a higher ceiling and lower floor (Mike Minor) essentially for free and with Texas covering half his remaining contract, I'm not sure what people were expecting.  There was a lot of discussion of this being a seller's market, but the returns on trades don't seem to bear that out.  Clevinger is an jerk, but he's a very good pitcher and  went for pennies on the dollar; the Reds got a good reliever under control through next year and a starting-quality outfielder for fringe pitching prospects; the Blue Jays got two capable starting pitchers for lottery ticket prospects.   I'm all for these types of lottery ticket trades in this situation, but I'm not sure the Nats would have even gotten many of those types of offers for what they had available.  Other teams were selling better versions of the same and still getting very little.

Only Givens, Moreland, and the guys the Mariners traded down to SD seemed to get decent returns, from what I can recall off the top of my head, and those dudes were actually performing very well this season. 

Offline imref

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Remember that at the deadline we were 3 games out of the WC.  I assume Rizzo/Lerner thought it better to keep guys like Suzuki and Gomes rather than trade them for what probably wouldn't have been more than an A-level potential future reliever.  I can't imagine Cabrera had any value.  And Howie may not have wanted to leave.  Just speculating (as we all do)

Offline rbw5t

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I think Rizzo's contract situation could have affected trade deadline decisions.  If he isn't sure if his contract will be renewed, the safest move is standing pat.  If we're buyers to try to turn it around and it doesn't work out, ownership might decide it was an irrational move, and not renew him over it.  If we're sellers, they might decide we threw in the towel too early.  Just letting the season peter out is probably least likely to negatively affect whether the Lerners renew his contract.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I suppose there is nothing to be gained by saying we were looking to sell various guys but could not get takers who would give value, so maybe Rizzo did try. I would also think the general direction, buy / sell would ne cleared with Mark Lerner. He suggests this when he says he would have had to ask for more payroll to buy. Still, the idra that we were only 4 games out of the wc doesn't recognize that we would have had to climb over 6 or so teams for that spot. Just not prudent to base.a plan on that.