Author Topic: reviewing the wild card game  (Read 629 times)

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Offline Five Banners

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reviewing the wild card game
« Topic Start: December 27, 2019, 10:55:14 AM »
Some things that stood out after a wildcard game rewatch:

— Stras should’ve started (and pitched great in relief), but Max hung in enough to keep it close
— Turner with the first HR/score of this run
— MAT HBP, taking off his glove and showing Bogar his hand after replay upheld the call
— Ron Darling not only getting the above call right (simultaneous hand-bat hit) but observed at the time and late in the game that the bad pitch calls mostly went against the Nats
— Rendon with a long full-face yawn in the dugout near the start of the bottom of the 8th
— Zim’s broken bat blooper with two outs (followed by shrug and mini-shark)
— Rendon laying off of the high fastball everyone had been chasing, drawing walk
— Soto
— Hudson
— Robles putout

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #1: December 28, 2019, 05:52:07 PM »
I'm not going to disagree with that first point, but there's something demoralizing about bringing in a better pitcher after your very good pitcher departs.

Some things that stood out after a wildcard game rewatch:

— Stras should’ve started (and pitched great in relief), but Max hung in enough to keep it close
— Turner with the first HR/score of this run
— MAT HBP, taking off his glove and showing Bogar his hand after replay upheld the call
— Ron Darling not only getting the above call right (simultaneous hand-bat hit) but observed at the time and late in the game that the bad pitch calls mostly went against the Nats
— Rendon with a long full-face yawn in the dugout near the start of the bottom of the 8th
— Zim’s broken bat blooper with two outs (followed by shrug and mini-shark)
— Rendon laying off of the high fastball everyone had been chasing, drawing walk
— Soto
— Hudson
— Robles putout

Offline Five Banners

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #2: December 28, 2019, 06:10:24 PM »
I'm not going to disagree with that first point, but there's something demoralizing about bringing in a better pitcher after your very good pitcher departs.


It was frustrating at the time, but I think it served as a learning experience on playoff baseball and the timing of using people whose approaches are different

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #3: December 28, 2019, 06:15:02 PM »
It was frustrating at the time, but I think it served as a learning experience on playoff baseball and the timing of using people whose approaches are different

Sorry. I meant demoralizing for the other team. :D

Offline nfotiu

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #4: December 28, 2019, 08:56:07 PM »
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer yet on who is the guy to go to in a big game between Max and Stras.   I don't think there are more than 3 teams? 2 teams? any team?  that has a pitcher they could say they'd want in a 2020 winner takes all game ahead of the second choice of Max/Stras if you asked them right now.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #5: December 28, 2019, 09:23:49 PM »
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer yet on who is the guy to go to in a big game between Max and Stras.   I don't think there are more than 3 teams? 2 teams? any team?  that has a pitcher they could say they'd want in a 2020 winner takes all game ahead of the second choice of Max/Stras if you asked them right now.

It's situational. In a one-game elimination game like the wildcard where one pitcher had not only struggled but given up HRs, amplifying the damage in such a situation, giving Stras the nod against the HR-happy Brewers was preferable. Plus, both of their having won going forward presumably redounds to their benefit pressure-wise going forward (as well as Corbin and Sanchez)

Offline nfotiu

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #6: December 28, 2019, 09:27:11 PM »
I'm not going to disagree with that first point, but there's something demoralizing about bringing in a better pitcher after your very good pitcher departs.

Some things that stood out after a wildcard game rewatch:

— Stras should’ve started (and pitched great in relief), but Max hung in enough to keep it close
— Turner with the first HR/score of this run
— MAT HBP, taking off his glove and showing Bogar his hand after replay upheld the call
— Ron Darling not only getting the above call right (simultaneous hand-bat hit) but observed at the time and late in the game that the bad pitch calls mostly went against the Nats
— Rendon with a long full-face yawn in the dugout near the start of the bottom of the 8th
— Zim’s broken bat blooper with two outs (followed by shrug and mini-shark)
— Rendon laying off of the high fastball everyone had been chasing, drawing walk
— Soto
— Hudson
— Robles putout
One fun thing I always think about the wild card game.  The Soto double was probably the key play to us getting past the wild card game and leading us to the world series and at the same time the most selfish celebration that gave a free out.  That selfish play also allowed Hudson to come in without having a second to think about the situation he was coming into, and he may have imploded if he had another batter or two come up.   Soto did so many amazing things through this playoffs that I am going with he celebrated by design!

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #7: December 29, 2019, 10:42:06 AM »
One fun thing I always think about the wild card game.  The Soto double was probably the key play to us getting past the wild card game and leading us to the world series and at the same time the most selfish celebration that gave a free out.  That selfish play also allowed Hudson to come in without having a second to think about the situation he was coming into, and he may have imploded if he had another batter or two come up.   Soto did so many amazing things through this playoffs that I am going with he celebrated by design!

Umm, he didn't give a free out. He even explained it.

He went between 2nd and 3rd to make sure the throw went there and not to home allowing Rendon to cross the plate before he got tagged out.

Honestly its amazing that he (20 years old) was so wise to do that.

Online Slateman

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #8: December 29, 2019, 10:43:11 AM »
Umm, he didn't give a free out. He even explained it.

He went between 2nd and 3rd to make sure the throw went there and not to home allowing Rendon to cross the plate before he got tagged out.

Honestly its amazing that he (20 years old) was so wise to do that.
I find it funny you buy this. 

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #9: December 29, 2019, 10:50:31 AM »
I find it funny you buy this.

Rendon didn’t cross the plate until Soto was between 2nd and 3rd

Online Slateman

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #10: December 29, 2019, 10:50:45 AM »
Rendon didn’t cross the plate until Soto was between 2nd and 3rd
Okay boomer

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #11: December 29, 2019, 10:53:43 AM »
Okay boomer

 :roll:

SS had the ball before Rendon crossed the plate

Online Slateman

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #12: December 29, 2019, 11:05:49 AM »
:roll:

SS had the ball before Rendon crossed the plate
And where was Rendon?

Here I will do the work for you


Rendon is crossing the plate as the SS is bringing up the ball to throw. There was no need for Soto to get caught in a rundown to ensure the run scored. He made a bad baserunning mistake and the Nationals were fortunate that it didn't come back to bite them.

Offline rileyn

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #13: December 29, 2019, 11:12:09 AM »
There was no way Rendon wasn't going to score on that play.  I do think Soto got caught up on purpose, but it was unnecessary at that point.  Either way, it's a stupid thing to argue about.  Please refer back to the title of the thread.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #14: December 29, 2019, 11:23:11 AM »
And where was Rendon?

Here I will do the work for you


Rendon is crossing the plate as the SS is bringing up the ball to throw. There was no need for Soto to get caught in a rundown to ensure the run scored. He made a bad baserunning mistake and the Nationals were fortunate that it didn't come back to bite them.

So you didn't watch the video you posted?

SS has ball decides not to throw home and instead throws 3rd since it's a sure out. Had Soto stood on 2nd, SS would throw home since it's the only play.

Is the odds low? Sure. But he has a chance. He has no chance since he didn't throw home.

This is not hard to understand.

Also SS pumps and throws 3rd as Rendon crosses plate.

Watch the video you posted. Zero % chance of getting Rendon if they don't throw home. 100% Rendon scores if they throw 3rd. What? You asking for better odds?

Offline Five Banners

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #15: December 29, 2019, 11:35:22 AM »
Speaking of notable outs, two months ago tonight was the Trea Turner interference call in Game Six. Tony will always get full marks for what followed

Online Slateman

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #16: December 29, 2019, 11:43:40 AM »
So you didn't watch the video you posted?

SS has ball decides not to throw home and instead throws 3rd since it's a sure out. Had Soto stood on 2nd, SS would throw home since it's the only play.

Is the odds low? Sure. But he has a chance. He has no chance since he didn't throw home.

This is not hard to understand.

Also SS pumps and throws 3rd as Rendon crosses plate.

Watch the video you posted. Zero % chance of getting Rendon if they don't throw home. 100% Rendon scores if they throw 3rd. What? You asking for better odds?
Timestamp 5:46 - Shortstop catches throw.


Timestamp 5:47 - Rendon is crossing the plate.


There was no play at home because Rendon was safe by a mile. Nothing Soto did on the base paths after he got to first base affected Anthony Rendon scoring.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #17: December 29, 2019, 12:05:35 PM »
While you have the power of hindsight, Soto didn’t. You aren’t  looking at the play at the point Soto made his decision.

Go to where Soto makes the decision. You will see why he did

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #18: December 29, 2019, 01:02:46 PM »
While you have the power of hindsight, Soto didn’t. You aren’t  looking at the play at the point Soto made his decision.

Go to where Soto makes the decision. You will see why he did
I don’t know what Soto thought. Maybe that there would be a play at the plate and he could waltz to third? There is really no way anyone would cut the throw to home at that point in the game to get him in a rundown. If it’s a where close you have to try and stop the run. Maybe early in the game it would happen. I fully forgive him for his baserunning mistake. He more than made up for it.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #19: December 29, 2019, 03:30:46 PM »
I don’t know what Soto thought. Maybe that there would be a play at the plate and he could waltz to third? There is really no way anyone would cut the throw to home at that point in the game to get him in a rundown. If it’s a where close you have to try and stop the run. Maybe early in the game it would happen. I fully forgive him for his baserunning mistake. He more than made up for it.

No. Soto said he went in between 2nd and 3rd in order to force the throw to 3rd and prevent the throw going to the plate.

I am not arguing he should have. I am arguing that when he decided to do this the ball was being thrown in from RF and Soto wasn't rounding 2nd and Rendon was rounding 3rd. This is when Soto made the decision to A) force the throw his way and B) not get tag until Rendon was across the plate.

But he wasn't being selfish. And he wasn't attempting to make it to 3rd.

Online Slateman

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #20: December 29, 2019, 03:46:14 PM »
Yes, we know. Soto made a poor decision that could have been very costly but wasnt.

That was the theme of this postseason. Bounces went their way. Luck was on their side. Any other postseason run, Will Smith's fly ball in the 9th is a walk off homer. Scherzer's walks cost the Nats the game. Turner getting called out on interference costs them runs.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #21: December 29, 2019, 04:04:50 PM »
Any other postseason run, Will Smith's fly ball in the 9th is a walk off homer. Scherzer's walks cost the Nats the game. Turner getting called out on interference costs them runs.

The big takeaway was the attitude. Rather than waiting for things to fall apart or letting something that went wrong spiral, they literally stayed in the fight. It was the opposition that had the bobbles, got tight, made the bad decisions, etc. The Nats had their share, but seemed to fight effectively against it taking over their approach.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #22: December 29, 2019, 04:19:42 PM »
Yes, we know. Soto made a poor decision that could have been very costly but wasnt.

That was the theme of this postseason. Bounces went their way. Luck was on their side. Any other postseason run, Will Smith's fly ball in the 9th is a walk off homer. Scherzer's walks cost the Nats the game. Turner getting called out on interference costs them runs.

#SotoDidNothingWrong

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #23: December 29, 2019, 04:24:27 PM »
No. Soto said he went in between 2nd and 3rd in order to force the throw to 3rd and prevent the throw going to the plate.

I am not arguing he should have. I am arguing that when he decided to do this the ball was being thrown in from RF and Soto wasn't rounding 2nd and Rendon was rounding 3rd. This is when Soto made the decision to A) force the throw his way and B) not get tag until Rendon was across the plate.

But he wasn't being selfish. And he wasn't attempting to make it to 3rd.
Soto lied to make it sound better.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: reviewing the wild card game
« Reply #24: December 29, 2019, 04:29:49 PM »
Soto lied to make it sound better.

He is known to lie...