Author Topic: Now Rendon Is With The Angels  (Read 1031 times)

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Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #150: December 16, 2019, 05:44:31 PM »
Does that mean he’s hoping that the angels don’t do well?
talk to trout.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #151: December 16, 2019, 06:57:23 PM »
talk to trout.

Next year they’ll have three of the highest paid position players and no one will pick the to win their division - joyful anonymity

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #152: December 16, 2019, 08:16:59 PM »
Next year they’ll have three of the highest paid position players and no one will pick the to win their division - joyful anonymity
And they will still draw over 3 million as they have every season since 2003.

My perspective on the Pujols contract is that while it may be a bad baseball contract, looking at what you paid and what you got on the field, it was a good business contract, since it helped keep fan interest and was apparently instrumental in the Angels getting a ca. $1 billion TV deal. With Pujols, Trout, Ohtani and Rendon, I wonder if the Angels' philosophy is just that, to get fans to watch the games to see these players, and worry less about the W/L record.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #153: December 16, 2019, 08:31:07 PM »
And they will still draw over 3 million as they have every season since 2003.

My perspective on the Pujols contract is that while it may be a bad baseball contract, looking at what you paid and what you got on the field, it was a good business contract, since it helped keep fan interest and was apparently instrumental in the Angels getting a ca. $1 billion TV deal. With Pujols, Trout, Ohtani and Rendon, I wonder if the Angels' philosophy is just that, to get fans to watch the games to see these players, and worry less about the W/L record.

It would seem the Angels have a different philosophy on the best way to win than the Nats. They are putting most of their resources on hitting while the Nats value starting pitching more than position players.

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #154: December 16, 2019, 08:48:40 PM »
It would seem the Angels have a different philosophy on the best way to win than the Nats. They are putting most of their resources on hitting while the Nats value starting pitching more than position players.

They’ve missed the playoffs for five years now

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #155: December 17, 2019, 01:43:31 AM »
Since I'm bored, here are the Angels' attendance figures for the last 20 seasons.

2000 -- 2,066,982 -- 19th
2001 -- 2,000,919 -- 20th
2002 -- 2,305,547 -- 16th -- Won WS
2003 -- 3,061,094 -- 5th
2004 -- 3,375,677 -- 3rd -- Lost ALDS
2005 -- 3,404,686 -- 4th -- Lost ALCS
2006 -- 3,406,790 -- 4th
2007 -- 3,365,632 -- 5th -- Lost ALDS
2008 -- 3,336,747 -- 6th -- Lost ALDS
2009 -- 3,240,386 -- 5th -- Lost ALCS
2010 -- 3,250,814 -- 5th
2011 -- 3,166,321 -- 5th
2012 -- 3,061,770 -- 7th
2013 -- 3,019,505 -- 7th
2014 -- 3,095,935 -- 5th -- Lost ALDS
2015 -- 3,012,765 -- 5th
2016 -- 3,016,142 -- 7th
2017 -- 3,019,585 -- 7th
2018 -- 3,020,216 -- 6th
2019 -- 3,019,012 -- 5th

2002 was the first time the Angels had been in the post-season since 1986, and they went from wildcard to WS champs.  They got a big spike in attendance as a result, and held on to it for a while, even as their postseasons were shorter than hoped. Attendance slipped in the 2010s. despite Pujols and Trout, but I think it's slipped over the entire league and not just for an under-performing Angels team. As noted, they've still held above the three million line, though it's close.

The TV contract, by the way, was bigger than I thought: https://losangeles.sbnation.com/los-angeles-angels/2011/12/8/2622757/los-angeles-angels-tv-deal-3-billion-20-years-albert-pujols-c-j-wilson-arte-moreno

It amounts to $3 billion over 20 years, which more than paid for Pujols' contract. I recall reading that the contract itself was contingent on the team showing a commitment to giving FSW viewers something to watch, so signing Pujols wasn't just a coincidence.

Can anyone think of other contracts that might not have made sense in baseball terms, but may have made sense in business terms? Some of the contracts to older fan favorites might qualify, like McCann with the Braves and Abreu with the White Sox. I suppose that might have been a factor with Chris Davis, but the Orioles did not anticipate how dramatically his performance would fall off.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #156: December 17, 2019, 07:04:01 AM »
From the reporting, he more of less told the LAD dodgers that they were not in the running because he did not want to deal with the lifestyle, meaning the profile and attention.  He was surprised how Orange County was much more anonymous.  I honestly think he limited his cities due to whether he felt comfortable in them, and then pursued the $$$.

But why did he meet with the Dodgers then. He's been to LA many times and knew what it was like.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #157: December 17, 2019, 07:27:09 AM »
But why did he meet with the Dodgers then. He's been to LA many times and knew what it was like.
To help drive up the price. Duh.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #158: December 17, 2019, 07:42:10 AM »
Since I'm bored, here are the Angels' attendance figures for the last 20 seasons.

2000 -- 2,066,982 -- 19th
2001 -- 2,000,919 -- 20th
2002 -- 2,305,547 -- 16th -- Won WS
2003 -- 3,061,094 -- 5th
2004 -- 3,375,677 -- 3rd -- Lost ALDS
2005 -- 3,404,686 -- 4th -- Lost ALCS
2006 -- 3,406,790 -- 4th
2007 -- 3,365,632 -- 5th -- Lost ALDS
2008 -- 3,336,747 -- 6th -- Lost ALDS
2009 -- 3,240,386 -- 5th -- Lost ALCS
2010 -- 3,250,814 -- 5th
2011 -- 3,166,321 -- 5th
2012 -- 3,061,770 -- 7th
2013 -- 3,019,505 -- 7th
2014 -- 3,095,935 -- 5th -- Lost ALDS
2015 -- 3,012,765 -- 5th
2016 -- 3,016,142 -- 7th
2017 -- 3,019,585 -- 7th
2018 -- 3,020,216 -- 6th
2019 -- 3,019,012 -- 5th

2002 was the first time the Angels had been in the post-season since 1986, and they went from wildcard to WS champs.  They got a big spike in attendance as a result, and held on to it for a while, even as their postseasons were shorter than hoped. Attendance slipped in the 2010s. despite Pujols and Trout, but I think it's slipped over the entire league and not just for an under-performing Angels team. As noted, they've still held above the three million line, though it's close.

The TV contract, by the way, was bigger than I thought: https://losangeles.sbnation.com/los-angeles-angels/2011/12/8/2622757/los-angeles-angels-tv-deal-3-billion-20-years-albert-pujols-c-j-wilson-arte-moreno

It amounts to $3 billion over 20 years, which more than paid for Pujols' contract. I recall reading that the contract itself was contingent on the team showing a commitment to giving FSW viewers something to watch, so signing Pujols wasn't just a coincidence.

Can anyone think of other contracts that might not have made sense in baseball terms, but may have made sense in business terms? Some of the contracts to older fan favorites might qualify, like McCann with the Braves and Abreu with the White Sox. I suppose that might have been a factor with Chris Davis, but the Orioles did not anticipate how dramatically his performance would fall off.
Impressive attendance for a team not in the playoffs.

They have an impressive lineup. Need pitching. Think Ryu will sign there. But they need more.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #159: December 17, 2019, 08:43:27 AM »
Can anyone think of other contracts that might not have made sense in baseball terms, but may have made sense in business terms? Some of the contracts to older fan favorites might qualify, like McCann with the Braves and Abreu with the White Sox. I suppose that might have been a factor with Chris Davis, but the Orioles did not anticipate how dramatically his performance would fall off.
why go any further than signing Pudge and Werth?  Pudge was the first credible ballplayer to sign here, and everyone acknowledges the Werth signing was as much if not more to show that this team was trying to contend and that it would bring in pieces around Strasburg, Harper, Zimmermann, Desmond, and Zimmerman to contend.  Werth's contract did not pay off in terms of WAR, and arguably playing him in the field at the end was costly in the LDS, but few would argue that it wasn't a smart business move.  I suppose the difference with Werth is it was a catalyst to other signings and a morale builder.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #160: December 17, 2019, 12:04:52 PM »
To help drive up the price. Duh.

That's my point. Is it a smart business move, yes. It's a move every ballplayer makes when he wants to generate the most interest to get the most money and years. Tony is no different. He shouldn't have made the point of why he didn't go to the Dodgers. He's not any different than any other player so he and the press should stop making it sound like he is. Good luck to him though. We will miss him.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #161: December 17, 2019, 12:44:21 PM »
That's my point. Is it a smart business move, yes. It's a move every ballplayer makes when he wants to generate the most interest to get the most money and years. Tony is no different. He shouldn't have made the point of why he didn't go to the Dodgers. He's not any different than any other player so he and the press should stop making it sound like he is. Good luck to him though. We will miss him.
Like everyone else he listens to his agent.  Not the first guy to play a team.

Good luck to him. Between him and Trout they should be fun to watch next year.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #162: December 17, 2019, 01:08:43 PM »
and Ohtani, healthy.  Now if the cadaver that is Pujols can be revived a bit, and Jo Adell is who they think he is, that is one loaded lineup.

Online Slateman

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #163: December 17, 2019, 01:24:38 PM »
and Ohtani, healthy.  Now if the cadaver that is Pujols can be revived a bit, and Jo Adell is who they think he is, that is one loaded lineup.
I'm super interested to see how Maddon uses Ohtani.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #164: December 17, 2019, 01:33:12 PM »
and Ohtani, healthy.  Now if the cadaver that is Pujols can be revived a bit, and Jo Adell is who they think he is, that is one loaded lineup.

So they will lose 4 of every 5 games 10-6. The pitching is horrendous. And reasonable options continue to come off the board.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #165: December 17, 2019, 01:58:46 PM »
So they will lose 4 of every 5 games 10-6. The pitching is horrendous. And reasonable options continue to come off the board.
well, pencil in Price at the top of the rotation.  Boston will pick up $12MM a year to lower his cost to $$60MM for 3 years.  They'll do it to get under the tax threshold. 

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #166: December 17, 2019, 02:13:35 PM »
well, pencil in Price at the top of the rotation.  Boston will pick up $12MM a year to lower his cost to $$60MM for 3 years.  They'll do it to get under the tax threshold.
Ryu and Keuchel are both still available. Expect they will sign one of those guys. I would expect Ryu would want to stay in SOCAL.

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #167: December 17, 2019, 02:14:14 PM »
well, pencil in Price at the top of the rotation.  Boston will pick up $12MM a year to lower his cost to $$60MM for 3 years.  They'll do it to get under the tax threshold. 

He was an awesome number one four years ago, now he’s just a big name. Dave is right- these look like decisions to drive buzz and attendance, not an effort to win anything

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #168: December 17, 2019, 02:18:49 PM »
He was an awesome number one four years ago, now he’s just a big name. Dave is right- these look like decisions to drive buzz and attendance, not an effort to win anything
he had a nice playoff run in 2018.  If Boston subsidizes it, it is less than Corbin money for a #2.  i'd be more worried about the short seasons he had in 2017 and 2019 than a drop off in quality.  At $20MM, it would not prevent signing Ryu, either.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #169: December 17, 2019, 02:20:55 PM »
He was an awesome number one four years ago, now he’s just a big name. Dave is right- these look like decisions to drive buzz and attendance, not an effort to win anything
Did I miss something? Isn’t Price still on the Sox?  I think they tried to get Cole also.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #170: December 17, 2019, 02:23:07 PM »
Did I miss something? Isn’t Price still on the Sox?  I think they tried to get Cole also.

He is, but they are cutting pay and likely will subsidize 1/3 of Price's pay to move him.

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #171: December 17, 2019, 03:23:15 PM »
Ryu and Keuchel are both still available. Expect they will sign one of those guys. I would expect Ryu would want to stay in SOCAL.
Ryu going to St. Louis

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #172: December 17, 2019, 03:45:14 PM »
Ryu going to St. Louis
Got to pronounce it "Saint Loo" to make it rhyme.  Keuchel or bust for the Angels.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #173: December 17, 2019, 04:22:16 PM »
Got to pronounce it "Saint Loo" to make it rhyme.  Keuchel or bust for the Angels.
He’s crazy. Not enough Korean restaurants there.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Now Rendon Is With The Angels
« Reply #174: December 17, 2019, 04:29:19 PM »
He’s crazy. Not enough Korean restaurants there.

meh, clearly they have awesome food- how many cities can claim their own type of pizza made with something called provel which may be edible