Author Topic: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason  (Read 42012 times)

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Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #800: December 04, 2019, 07:50:04 PM »
Wheeler has a career ERA+ of 100. So on-brand for the Phillies to give huge money to a guy who has a bigger name than his actual production.
Jake Arrieta will be insulted.   :hysterical:

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #801: December 04, 2019, 08:41:32 PM »
Cogent analysis. :thumbs:
Wheeler is meh.
Arietta is broken down.
Nola is hot and cold.
Eflin is a phony.
Nationals are world series champs.

Online UMDNats

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #802: December 04, 2019, 08:53:23 PM »
We also own the crap out of Wheeler. Harper gonna be watching a lot of Soto dongs to RF off of Wheeler. Tough lost for Bryce.

Offline 3bside

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #803: December 05, 2019, 10:53:24 AM »
I’m wondering if winning the World Series while Ted Lerner is still around will make them less likely to spend.  Detroit spent to get Mike Ilitch a World Series before he died (which they didn’t) and now they’re stuck with Cabrera and Z’mann’s contracts and they’re paying parts of Fielder’s and Verlander’s contracts.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #804: December 05, 2019, 10:59:49 AM »
I’m wondering if winning the World Series while Ted Lerner is still around will make them less likely to spend.  Detroit spent to get Mike Ilitch a World Series before he died (which they didn’t) and now they’re stuck with Cabrera and Z’mann’s contracts and they’re paying parts of Fielder’s and Verlander’s contracts.

They can do deals with Strasburg and Rendon and not hamstring themselves as in the situations above, especially as other contracts keep coming off the books

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #805: December 05, 2019, 06:20:37 PM »
I’m wondering if winning the World Series while Ted Lerner is still around will make them less likely to spend.  Detroit spent to get Mike Ilitch a World Series before he died (which they didn’t) and now they’re stuck with Cabrera and Z’mann’s contracts and they’re paying parts of Fielder’s and Verlander’s contracts.

https://mobile.twitter.com/_jakerussell/status/1202726382712827904?s=21

That answers that.

Offline Expos

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Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #807: December 05, 2019, 06:35:33 PM »
Well that sucks.

Sign Strasburg and get Donaldson.

I would sign Rendon.  Stras has an expiration date. TJ repair is not permanent when you continue to do the thing that led to it. Rendon wants to play for five more years. it's do-able.


Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #808: December 05, 2019, 07:10:16 PM »
I would sign Rendon.  Stras has an expiration date. TJ repair is not permanent when you continue to do the thing that led to it. Rendon wants to play for five more years. it's do-able.


This. Though the argument is dumb. If the Lerners cant keep payroll after exceeding the luxury tax two out if the last three seasons AND winning the World freaking Series, then what the freak are we even doing.


Offline imref

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #809: December 05, 2019, 07:12:02 PM »
Rendon has to be the priority.

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #810: December 05, 2019, 07:37:18 PM »
This. Though the argument is dumb. If the Lerners cant keep payroll after exceeding the luxury tax two out if the last three seasons AND winning the World freaking Series, then what the freak are we even doing.

Well....we got one. I guess that's the only positive way to look at it.

Offline Expos

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #811: December 05, 2019, 08:33:12 PM »
I guess the question is which is harder to find?

Legit ace pitchers or All Star third baseman?

I'm sticking to my guns and saying pitching.  Free agents like Scherzer come around once every 20 years..

We have prospects that may be able to play 3rd. Not to the extent of Rendon but they can still play. And there are always capable bats at 3B available in free agency. What we don't have is a capable in house replacement for Strasburg.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #812: December 05, 2019, 08:43:13 PM »
I was going to say some things, but this:

I would sign Rendon.  Stras has an expiration date. TJ repair is not permanent when you continue to do the thing that led to it. Rendon wants to play for five more years. it's do-able.

and this:

This. Though the argument is dumb. If the Lerners cant keep payroll after exceeding the luxury tax two out if the last three seasons AND winning the World freaking Series, then what the freak are we even doing.

Pretty much cover it.  Mark Lerner is a cheap freaking moron whose being born on third base doesn't mean he hit a triple.  When you're in a business like baseball, failing to invest is investing to fail.  The old man deserved a title.  Mark deserves to do his freaking job: shut up, open the checkbook, and write the checks Rizzo tells him to write.

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #813: December 05, 2019, 09:05:00 PM »
I guess the question is which is harder to find?

Legit ace pitchers or All Star third baseman?

I'm sticking to my guns and saying pitching.  Free agents like Scherzer come around once every 20 years..

We have prospects that may be able to play 3rd. Not to the extent of Rendon but they can still play. And there are always capable bats at 3B available in free agency. What we don't have is a capable in house replacement for Strasburg.
I dont think of Stras as an ace. But even if you do, there were several other pitchers that were his equal the last three seasons. And you have two other "aces"

Rendon is a top 5 player in all of baseball. You're not going to make that up. Theres a huge drop off between him and Donaldson, particularly two or three years from now.

And then there are injury histories to consider.

If money is really that tight, then find a way to cut it from somewhere else. Hunter Strickland, Wilmer Difo, and Michael Taylor can be replaced with minimum level guys. Give Sanchez an extension that lowers his AAV.

If the Nats turn in a sub-90 win, non-playoff campaign, they will lose the entire fanbase they just gained with this postseason run.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #814: December 05, 2019, 09:24:54 PM »
I guess the question is which is harder to find?

Legit ace pitchers or All Star third baseman?

I'm sticking to my guns and saying pitching.  Free agents like Scherzer come around once every 20 years..

We have prospects that may be able to play 3rd. Not to the extent of Rendon but they can still play. And there are always capable bats at 3B available in free agency. What we don't have is a capable in house replacement for Strasburg.

We also have prospects who can stand on a mound and fling a ball.  Rendon just finished third in MVP voting and isn't a 31-year-old pitcher with 1300 innings post-Tommy John.  You can't replace either of these guys from the minors or even do anything close, so if you're picking one, you pick the better bet to stay near his current level.   

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #815: December 05, 2019, 09:31:09 PM »
I honestly thought we were past this crap.

Offline hohoho

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #816: December 05, 2019, 10:04:49 PM »

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #817: December 05, 2019, 10:30:18 PM »
I just don't believe that comment. It feels of a really poor move to try and temper Boras's expectations from the Nats. This franchise just got below the tax threshold and has had payroll in prior seasons close to this year's limit.

That doesn't mean I believe they will sign both, but it's a really lame cop out to do now.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #818: December 05, 2019, 11:58:06 PM »
I dont think of Stras as an ace. But even if you do, there were several other pitchers that were his equal the last three seasons. And you have two other "aces"

Rendon is a top 5 player in all of baseball. You're not going to make that up. Theres a huge drop off between him and Donaldson, particularly two or three years from now.

And then there are injury histories to consider.

If money is really that tight, then find a way to cut it from somewhere else. Hunter Strickland, Wilmer Difo, and Michael Taylor can be replaced with minimum level guys. Give Sanchez an extension that lowers his AAV.

If the Nats turn in a sub-90 win, non-playoff campaign, they will lose the entire fanbase they just gained with this postseason run.


These contracts are never about the next 1-2 years, they are about the years after those.   And the money comments are never about the Lerners keeping more money for themselves, they are much more about how to best allocate salary next year and years going forward.

It seems that Rizzo's directive for a while now has been to plan and build a team that is a contender every year at a budget that can brush up against the lux tax but not go over.

I don't know what term both these guys are really seeking, but if they are both 6-7 years, then signing them both brings a real risk we could end up with 70-80 million tied up in 2 guys who are nowhere near worth that for a good 3-4 years. 

Looking at it unemotionally, I don't see how signing both makes good long term sense from a baseball standpoint, and could very easily lead to a few very bad years.

I never thought we'd sign both anyways.  I also don't think any other team is going to sign two of Stras, Rendon or Cole.   

As to who to sign, I've always though that a starting pitcher is a better value in free agency through their mid 30s than a position player is.   It's easy to say we have 2 or 3 other great starters. but losing Strasburg means we go from having Stras,Max,Corbin,Sanchez,other to Max,Corbin,other,other and we're basically replacing Strasburg with Fedde and that's probably a bigger difference over a year than replacing Rendon with Donaldson.

I appreciate how this team is managed.   As much as I'd love to keep the band together and see what happens, I am ok with our management considering the long term risk of going for it.  I want to watch 162+ entertaining games in 3 years just as badly as I do next year.

I also think that this year validated that approach of fielding a contender every year vs blowing it up and trying to build a powerhouse that more than likely will not win it all anyway.   

Offline DCFan

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #821: December 06, 2019, 08:51:37 AM »
Well, if it is the "we can't sign both," then I am very [annoyed] that we are letting the likes of Wheeler and Hamels and Moustakas cut deals for high teens / low twenties.  We need backfills at both positions.  Frankly, we are going to need to re-sign Howie for either 3d or 2d if Rendon walks, and probably use some of the money not spent on Stras for a better 2d bullpen addition (Harris and Hudson) on top of his replacement starter.  It'll take a quality bats at 1st, 2d and 3d to make up for the lost production from 2019.

Offline RyanZimsKazoo

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #822: December 06, 2019, 08:52:04 AM »
LAC  SQUAD ASSEMBBLLLLEEEEEEEEEEE

freak Mark Lerner. Literally Jeff Loria right now. Build a team only to blow it up after you get your Series win.

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #823: December 06, 2019, 09:20:49 AM »
ESPN article suggesting a straight up swap of Harder for Kieboom.

Would you do it?

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #824: December 06, 2019, 09:25:41 AM »
ESPN article suggesting a straight up swap of Harder for Kieboom.

Would you do it?
Hader?