Author Topic: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason  (Read 32474 times)

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Offline Mathguy

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #775: December 04, 2019, 05:31:24 AM »
Does anyone know what position that would put the Nats in, in terms of the payroll budget and luxury tax ?

Hell.....I would give him 240 mil for 6 years without hesitating a second.

Stras 180 mil for 6 years.

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #776: December 04, 2019, 06:56:36 AM »
Does anyone know what position that would put the Nats in, in terms of the payroll budget and luxury tax ?

They'd be fine

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #777: December 04, 2019, 08:07:50 AM »
If he just wants a 5-year deal, the Nats should ask him what AAV he wants, add a million, and send it back to him.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #778: December 04, 2019, 09:06:26 AM »
They'd be fine

Moreover, it doesn't matter.  There's no feasible way you'd be able to get that much production at that number without substantially higher long-term risk.  If that rumor is actually his request, you'd think you have about six minutes to offer it to him before 10 other teams do.   

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #779: December 04, 2019, 10:37:55 AM »
Moreover, it doesn't matter.  There's no feasible way you'd be able to get that much production at that number without substantially higher long-term risk.  If that rumor is actually his request, you'd think you have about six minutes to offer it to him before 10 other teams do.   

Yep, if he’s willi img to take a short(er) term deal, every team will be in in the bidding

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #780: December 04, 2019, 11:02:58 AM »
If he just wants a 5-year deal, the Nats should ask him what AAV he wants, add a million, and send it back to him.

I'm worried Boras is going to get in the way of this now. And Rizzo if signaling that he's not waiting forever...

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #781: December 04, 2019, 11:20:28 AM »
I'm worried Boras is going to get in the way of this now. And Rizzo if signaling that he's not waiting forever...


 Could be. I’m hoping the teammates get involved like they tried to at the parade, because I can see Mr. super agent figuring the Rangers will spend on Rendon and nobody else and trying to push that, knowing that the nationals will probably still spend at third and keep the market high.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #782: December 04, 2019, 01:43:17 PM »
Could be. I’m hoping the teammates get involved like they tried to at the parade, because I can see Mr. super agent figuring the Rangers will spend on Rendon and nobody else and trying to push that, knowing that the nationals will probably still spend at third and keep the market high.

I'm sure Rendon knows his teammates would love him to return, but I doubt they will really give a hard sell.  It's a mega decision for him, and they will show respect. 

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #783: December 04, 2019, 01:44:22 PM »
I think both Stras and Rendon are working to quickly get all bids in from other teams, and are going to circle back to the Nats and say this is what you need to match/beat. 

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #784: December 04, 2019, 02:05:11 PM »
Cole Hamels to the Barves 1 yr 18mil

Offline Terps and Nats

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #785: December 04, 2019, 02:13:16 PM »
Philly fans melting down  :lol:

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #786: December 04, 2019, 02:25:36 PM »
Philly fans melting down  :lol:
Not anymore, they just signed Zach Wheeler 5yr 120mil

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #787: December 04, 2019, 02:35:25 PM »
Dang, I was hoping they'd waste their money on MadBum

Offline imref

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #788: December 04, 2019, 02:58:03 PM »
Wheeler to Philly, 5 years / $118 million.

Seems a bit more important now that we keep Strasburg (or not, Zuck notes he's 5-10 with a 5.01 ERA against the Nats, including 6.83 in 5 starts this year)

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #789: December 04, 2019, 03:00:35 PM »
Wheeler to Philly, 5 years / $118 million.

Seems a bit more important now that we keep Strasburg (or not, Zuck notes he's 5-10 with a 5.01 ERA against the Nats, including 6.83 in 5 starts this year)

Wheeler struck me as a guy with the stuff to be better than he's been...like Cole was before he left Pitt for Houston.  I dn't know that the Phillies are the organization to unlock that potential.  I think he'll be good, not great, for them. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #790: December 04, 2019, 03:08:24 PM »
Wheeler struck me as a guy with the stuff to be better than he's been...like Cole was before he left Pitt for Houston.  I dn't know that the Phillies are the organization to unlock that potential.  I think he'll be good, not great, for them.

It's interesting that his deal has quite close to (but a bit less than in money) the years/money combo that Corbin has remaining on his deal.  He's also got the Tommy John in his history.

Offline imref

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #791: December 04, 2019, 03:49:01 PM »
Wheeler struck me as a guy with the stuff to be better than he's been...like Cole was before he left Pitt for Houston.  I dn't know that the Phillies are the organization to unlock that potential.  I think he'll be good, not great, for them. 

they don't exactly have a track record of success with FA starters. :)

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #792: December 04, 2019, 03:54:00 PM »
Wheeler struck me as a guy with the stuff to be better than he's been...like Cole was before he left Pitt for Houston.  I dn't know that the Phillies are the organization to unlock that potential.  I think he'll be good, not great, for them.

I don't see it. Take into consideration the two organizations that Cole and Wheeler came from. The Pirates were notorious for pushing their pitchers to pitch to contact and avoid the high K numbers as it was something that worked for them. Essentially Pittsburgh was pushing their starters to be two seamer happy since that really seemed to work (lol, no pun intended) for their scrap heap fixes like Morton, Burnett, and Liriano.

Wheeler on the other hand has played for the Mets, who have really pushed the strikeout pitcher. I haven't heard anything about altering Wheeler's mechanics or pitch selection to increase groundballs and not pitch to the strikeout, so I'm weary to think or say that there is "unlocked potential". Could he get better? Sure he could, but also remember that he is older than Cole and Cole has already turned that corner. Cole basically morphed into an ace when going to Houston around the same age that Scherzer took that next step with the Tigers. I just don't see 10+ K/9 and sub 2 BB/9 along with 200+ innings going deep into starts from Wheeler. Then again, those metrics I posted are becoming ever more rare these days.

I think the Phillies probably paid the right amount, but he isn't a one and they don't have the bullpen to bail him out. Essentially Wheeler gets paid a bunch but lines up behind Nola, and unless that offense really starts slugging, it would be hard to win with a psuedo-Ace, a number three, and a bunch of throw ins.

Offline imref

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #793: December 04, 2019, 04:42:41 PM »
FWIW:

Quote
Dan Federico
@DanJFederico
Multiple reports have stated the Yankees are meeting with Stephen Strasburg in California tomorrow. While that is indeed the case, one person with knowledge of the situation called it “due diligence” and that he would “put the odds at 80%” that Strasburg returns to DC

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #794: December 04, 2019, 04:58:15 PM »
I don't see it. Take into consideration the two organizations that Cole and Wheeler came from. The Pirates were notorious for pushing their pitchers to pitch to contact and avoid the high K numbers as it was something that worked for them. Essentially Pittsburgh was pushing their starters to be two seamer happy since that really seemed to work (lol, no pun intended) for their scrap heap fixes like Morton, Burnett, and Liriano.

Wheeler on the other hand has played for the Mets, who have really pushed the strikeout pitcher. I haven't heard anything about altering Wheeler's mechanics or pitch selection to increase groundballs and not pitch to the strikeout, so I'm weary to think or say that there is "unlocked potential". Could he get better? Sure he could, but also remember that he is older than Cole and Cole has already turned that corner. Cole basically morphed into an ace when going to Houston around the same age that Scherzer took that next step with the Tigers. I just don't see 10+ K/9 and sub 2 BB/9 along with 200+ innings going deep into starts from Wheeler. Then again, those metrics I posted are becoming ever more rare these days.

I think the Phillies probably paid the right amount, but he isn't a one and they don't have the bullpen to bail him out. Essentially Wheeler gets paid a bunch but lines up behind Nola, and unless that offense really starts slugging, it would be hard to win with a psuedo-Ace, a number three, and a bunch of throw ins.

Basically Wheeler will take Arrieta's place dollar wise after this season. They need at least one more starter.  A rotation of Nola, Wheeler, Arietta, Mr. X and Eflin would be better than what they trotted out there the last few years.  Not the 2019 Nats but decent.

Is Nola a pseudo-ace? I had not heard that one before.  He did finish third in the Cy Young after 2018.  Last year was a step back.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #795: December 04, 2019, 05:13:39 PM »
Wheeler is meh.
Arietta is broken down.
Nola is hot and cold.
Eflin is a phony.
Nationals are world series champs.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #796: December 04, 2019, 06:16:30 PM »
I don't know that the Yankees are looking to break the bank anywhere. Also hearing that Angels are targeting Cole

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #797: December 04, 2019, 06:52:50 PM »
Basically Wheeler will take Arrieta's place dollar wise after this season. They need at least one more starter.  A rotation of Nola, Wheeler, Arietta, Mr. X and Eflin would be better than what they trotted out there the last few years.  Not the 2019 Nats but decent.

Is Nola a pseudo-ace? I had not heard that one before.  He did finish third in the Cy Young after 2018.  Last year was a step back.

In 2018, Nola was an ace, no doubt. Last season, not so much. He's young and will likely develop into that guy. He reminds me of Strasburg after the 2014 season. He's like a 2 right now, but will very likely become that ace soon. Still, the point is that Wheeler makes their rotation better, but still not much better. This isn't like the Phillies went out and signed an ace, and I don't think they really overpayed. It just sucks that this is the going rate for a number 3 guy now. Corbin's deal is looking great comparatively.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #798: December 04, 2019, 07:22:20 PM »
Wheeler has a career ERA+ of 100. So on-brand for the Phillies to give huge money to a guy who has a bigger name than his actual production.

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #799: December 04, 2019, 07:33:48 PM »
Wheeler has a career ERA+ of 100. So on-brand for the Phillies to give huge money to a guy who has a bigger name than his actual production.
Hes been sub 100 the last two seasons, which corresponds with him getting healthy