Author Topic: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason  (Read 17236 times)

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Offline sixthree175

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #650: November 22, 2019, 03:06:05 PM »
Joe pitched well when he came up prior to his injury, and he pitched well down the stretch last year.  He deserves a shot as the #5 and has shown more than Voth.
Respectfully disagree.  The only reason Joe was on the WS roster is that he can be used as a pinch runner (and even pinch hitter).  Voth has more upside.

I think it's ironic that Joe starting Game 5 really was a blessing in disguise.  If Max pitched that game the Astros probably would've won anyway. 

Offline sixthree175

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #651: November 22, 2019, 03:09:02 PM »
Regardless of anything else, we need another starting-level catcher, Suzuki is 36 and can't be counted on for more than around 80 games a year (he caught 85 last year).

I can't imagine Gomes' .223 / .316 /.389 is going to be worth much more than $5 million, unless they decide that Read is capable of similar stats at league minimum.

here's some speculation that we trade for McCann:
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/nationals/how-yasmani-grandal-signing-could-affect-nationals-catching-plans
Gomes is recognized as an above average defensive catcher.  Read is ersatz. 

The Buffalo is getting panned for his defense, so much so that none of the Mets' pitchers wants to throw to him.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #652: November 22, 2019, 03:16:31 PM »
Respectfully disagree.  The only reason Joe was on the WS roster is that he can be used as a pinch runner (and even pinch hitter).  Voth has more upside.

I think it's ironic that Joe starting Game 5 really was a blessing in disguise.  If Max pitched that game the Astros probably would've won anyway.

Um, did you miss the World Series game in which he was the starting pitcher?  I mean, obviously not given your comment, but it's a little odd to think he was there instead of Voth because he can...pinch run? And how many times did he pinch run and/or pinch hit?

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #653: November 22, 2019, 04:31:56 PM »
Respectfully disagree.  The only reason Joe was on the WS roster is that he can be used as a pinch runner (and even pinch hitter).  Voth has more upside.

I think it's ironic that Joe starting Game 5 really was a blessing in disguise.  If Max pitched that game the Astros probably would've won anyway.

Look at the numbers.  When he rejoined the rotation down the stretch, he was undeniably very solid.  How can you argue numbers?

Online bluestreak

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #654: November 22, 2019, 04:35:44 PM »
Respectfully disagree.  The only reason Joe was on the WS roster is that he can be used as a pinch runner (and even pinch hitter).  Voth has more upside.

I think it's ironic that Joe starting Game 5 really was a blessing in disguise.  If Max pitched that game the Astros probably would've won anyway.

This is nonsensical. What information are you basing this on? The guy actually pitched well too.

Offline sixthree175

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #655: November 22, 2019, 05:19:42 PM »
This is nonsensical. What information are you basing this on? The guy actually pitched well too.
Joe settled down after giving up four runs.  At that point the game was effectively over.  It's not as difficult once the pressure is off.

He was an emergency pitcher who could also pinch run.  He wasn't called on to pinch run because the situation never arose.  The situation arose to actually pitch. 

Joe vs. good left-handed batters is a mismatch. 

Does he still have options?  If so, he starts the season in the minors.

Offline sixthree175

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #656: November 22, 2019, 05:25:40 PM »
Um, did you miss the World Series game in which he was the starting pitcher?  I mean, obviously not given your comment, but it's a little odd to think he was there instead of Voth because he can...pinch run? And how many times did he pinch run and/or pinch hit?
I've got an idea -- a mutual agreement to not respond to each other's comments.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #657: November 22, 2019, 05:32:46 PM »
Joe settled down after giving up four runs.  At that point the game was effectively over.  It's not as difficult once the pressure is off.

He was an emergency pitcher who could also pinch run.  He wasn't called on to pinch run because the situation never arose.  The situation arose to actually pitch. 

Joe vs. good left-handed batters is a mismatch. 

Does he still have options?  If so, he starts the season in the minors.

I’m wondering if you watched the games. He struck out Alvarez before giving up that homer. Hard when you’ve got to get 4 or 5 strikes. Otherwise he gave up two runs just like every other starter in the series.

To carry an inferior pitcher because of his ability to pinch run would be madness. Also, can Voth not run?

I mean I suppose it’s possible they kept Ross because of his ability to pinch run. But I certainly would not assume that’s the case unless I had some evidence or statement.
The most logical reason is that they thought he was a good pitcher.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #658: November 22, 2019, 05:41:11 PM »
I was at the game and my thought was that Ross got the start simply because he had more
major league experience. A simple explanation I know.

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #659: November 22, 2019, 06:23:37 PM »
Well, also, because he was in the roster.

Ross is fine. Voth can be carried on the 26 man with minimal issues. Neither can get through the lineup 3 times, so they can tag team and make a very good number 5.

Offline RyanZimsKazoo

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #660: November 22, 2019, 07:14:03 PM »
Indians released RHP Nick Goody.
The 28-year-old had been designated for assignment earlier in the week. Goody was a reliable bullpen arm for the Indians in 2019, registering a 3.54 ERA, 1.28 WHIP and 50/22 K/BB ratio across 40 2/3 innings. It wouldn't be surprising to see him land a big league deal elsewhere on the free agent market.

would take him over some of these guys

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #661: November 22, 2019, 07:38:47 PM »
Indians released RHP Nick Goody.
The 28-year-old had been designated for assignment earlier in the week. Goody was a reliable bullpen arm for the Indians in 2019, registering a 3.54 ERA, 1.28 WHIP and 50/22 K/BB ratio across 40 2/3 innings. It wouldn't be surprising to see him land a big league deal elsewhere on the free agent market.

would take him over some of these guys

High home run and control issues. I'd take him at the league minimum, but he is, at best, another Strickland. And hes on his way to being Barraclough

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #662: November 23, 2019, 10:38:22 AM »
I've got an idea -- a mutual agreement to not respond to each other's comments.

I was tempted to reply to this with a juvenile .gif, but I won't.  I can't say I've really noticed you before, but that seemed to be a pretty touchy reply there.

I don't have anything against you personally, just thought that post was a weird mix of unsupportable speculation and downright odd logic contrary to literally all observed facts.  You say he was there to act as a PR or even a PH, yet he did neither.  Instead, he was the starting pitcher for a game and a multi-inning reliever for another.  It's hard to even understand how you could come to the view you did: if he was to be used as a PR or PH, he would have been on the NLDS and NLCS rosters, where there aren't four games in AL parks and therefore many fewer uses for bench players.   He wasn't.  In short, I'm utterly confused as to your initial post and why you then reacted as you did. 

Offline imref

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #663: November 23, 2019, 12:02:55 PM »
Strasburg was court-side in LA yesterday for the Clippers game, which must mean he's close to signing with the Dodgers or Angels. :)

Online Five Banners

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #664: November 23, 2019, 12:44:22 PM »
Strasburg was court-side in LA yesterday for the Clippers game, which must mean he's close to signing with the Dodgers or Angels. :)

Actually, both

Offline DCFan

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #665: November 23, 2019, 12:56:16 PM »
Actually, both

Plus the Padres. If the Rays can play in 2 home fields why can’t the players? :mg:

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #666: November 23, 2019, 01:10:53 PM »
Dude.  It's not like these are freak injuries: he repeatedly hurts himself doing basic baseball activities.  Some guys just break down.  He's one of them.  FFS, he had a bruised ankle...and ended up needing surgery.  You say "it's been lower body things" like that's a good thing.  It's not.   He's like Nick Johnson or AJ Pollock except that those dudes actually produce when they play.  The only time Bird has managed to play more than 50 games in the majors (ever!), he hit .199 with no power and lost his job in the middle of the season.   His career OPS outside Yankee Stadium is .662 (Wilmer Difo's career OPS is .663). 

Other than a 40-game stretch coming up on 5 years ago, there is no indication at all that Greg Bird is a major league baseball player.  If that 40-game stretch had happened with the Royals or Reds, he'd be playing for the Long Island Ducks next year if he was lucky.
I didnt say that like its a good thing. Slate said his shoulder is done but its not his shoulder thats been hurt. Thats all I was saying. The rest of your post is a solid argument. I think bringing in someone like that on a camp deal is not a bad thing. You act like I was advocating for him starting at 1b.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #667: November 23, 2019, 03:56:14 PM »
I didnt say that like its a good thing. Slate said his shoulder is done but its not his shoulder thats been hurt. Thats all I was saying. The rest of your post is a solid argument. I think bringing in someone like that on a camp deal is not a bad thing. You act like I was advocating for him starting at 1b.

Yeah, I see that now.  I don't think I'd take him even on a camp deal.  The risk there is that he actually does anything over a short stretch, and then they latch onto the glimmer of hope and try to turn him into something he's not (at least anymore). 

Online Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #668: November 23, 2019, 06:46:06 PM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1198308219157929985?s=21

Quote
Mets have interest in Starling Marte. Fits what they seek — strong defender in CF, righthanded hitter. Pirates still working on manager. Uncertain if he’ll be dealt. Cubs, Reds, Padres among others who will look at center fielders.

So, obviously, I dont want Marte (unless there is a solid plan to move Soto to first base). However, if they're looking to cash in on Marte, I wonder if Josh Bell is available. And if some combination of Crowe, Sharpe and Denaburg would be enough to pry Bell and Kela away from the Pirates.

Kela is good middle relief with some back of the pen upside. Bell had a great May and the  reverted back to form, but showed power. Also, he seems to hit better away from Pittsburgh as well as handles RHP better. This would allow us to platoon him with Zim, as well as use Zim as a defensive replacement.

Salary for both would probably be about 9 million

Online bluestreak

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #669: November 23, 2019, 07:27:47 PM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1198308219157929985?s=21

So, obviously, I dont want Marte (unless there is a solid plan to move Soto to first base). However, if they're looking to cash in on Marte, I wonder if Josh Bell is available. And if some combination of Crowe, Sharpe and Denaburg would be enough to pry Bell and Kela away from the Pirates.

Kela is good middle relief with some back of the pen upside. Bell had a great May and the  reverted back to form, but showed power. Also, he seems to hit better away from Pittsburgh as well as handles RHP better. This would allow us to platoon him with Zim, as well as use Zim as a defensive replacement.

Salary for both would probably be about 9 million

Will the Nats even have Sharp after the rule 5 draft.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #670: November 25, 2019, 09:00:09 AM »
Pirates should be selling everything that is not nailed down. the last GM made it so they are further away from contending with bad trades. They gave away all their controllable talent. The Cole trade was terrible then the Archer trade made it worse. They should move Archer, Bell, Marte, kela, for sure, get alot of young lotto tickets.
non-nats hot stove has a thread in the out of town scoreboard.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #671: November 25, 2019, 09:13:08 AM »
Respectfully disagree.  The only reason Joe was on the WS roster is that he can be used as a pinch runner (and even pinch hitter).  Voth has more upside.

I think it's ironic that Joe starting Game 5 really was a blessing in disguise.  If Max pitched that game the Astros probably would've won anyway. 
Joe Ross rejoined the rotation in early August. Between August and September, he had 8 starts, went 4-1, and had an 2.75 ERA. That was a heck of a close to the season.

I have my questions about health and ability to pitch extended innings, but he deserve first shot at #5 starter next season. If Strasburg walks, he will definitely be in the rotation.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #672: November 25, 2019, 10:32:53 AM »
Mariners are shopping Omar Narvaez. Decent bat, meh glove for a catcher. The Nats survived this year with meh gloves from Suzuki and Gomes, Narvaez could be worth a look.

I also agree on Bell and Kela, assuming you can't get Mancini and Givens.

Offline imref

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #673: November 25, 2019, 10:33:45 AM »
@jonhayman

Quote
Dodgers are looking at Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg and Anthony Rendon. But while they can afford to go big, word is they have set valuations for each star and intend to remain disciplined.”

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #674: November 25, 2019, 10:41:29 AM »
Great, excellent reporting from Heyman. A contending team is looking at the three best players on the market, and can spend whatever they want, but want to remain in a price range. Finally, something new to report. Hot Stove twitter is barely better than trade deadline twitter, which is only a little bit better than spring training twitter.