Author Topic: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason  (Read 16357 times)

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Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #175: November 04, 2019, 10:56:00 AM »
I'm kind of surprised people aren't talking Cole to DC. With Max aging, and Nats spending big on SP in recent history.

It looks like they have at least $105 million before passing the Tax for the 2020 season.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I understand why people think they can't afford both Ant and Stras.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #176: November 04, 2019, 11:07:32 AM »
I'm kind of surprised people aren't talking Cole to DC. With Max aging, and Nats spending big on SP in recent history.

It looks like they have at least $105 million before passing the Tax for the 2020 season.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I understand why people think they can't afford both Ant and Stras.

That would be a pretty good plot twist if we let Strasburg go, and picked up Cole.   It does seem plausible as Rizzo seems far more willing to go for big long term deals on pitchers, but not position players.

As far as Rendon and Stras.  That's really not so much a short term money issue.  It's about Rizzo balking at giving out 8-10 years to Rendon of which 4-5 years are going to be dead money.   I'm sure they'd glady take Stras and Rendon on for 3x40 each.   The goal for this organization seems to be to be competitive every year and stay just under the cap.  Having long term deals that will inevitably lead to 30-40m/year in dead money does not work for that model.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #177: November 04, 2019, 11:07:56 AM »
I see nothing in Raudy Read that indicates he may ever be a major league catcher, no less counting on him in 2020.
isn't Tres Barrera the best projected catcher in the system? 

Offline hohoho

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #178: November 04, 2019, 11:09:09 AM »
I'm kind of surprised people aren't talking Cole to DC. With Max aging, and Nats spending big on SP in recent history.

It looks like they have at least $105 million before passing the Tax for the 2020 season.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I understand why people think they can't afford both Ant and Stras.
The question is, who can't "afford" them both? We fans can, it costs us nothing. The team, worth $2B, and the ownership, worth $3B, also can, but may not be willing as a business decision. There is no rule they can't pay the luxury tax and the tax probably would not be that much, so that has nothing to do with affordability, just an arbitrary budget and general principle - ownership sets limits as they see fit.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #179: November 04, 2019, 11:09:51 AM »
isn't Tres Barrera the best projected catcher in the system? 
Pineda is the highest rated catcher on our prospect list

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #180: November 04, 2019, 11:10:52 AM »
I see nothing in Raudy Read that indicates he may ever be a major league catcher, no less counting on him in 2020.
I would look at bringing in Cervelli.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #181: November 04, 2019, 11:11:19 AM »
I'm kind of surprised people aren't talking Cole to DC. With Max aging, and Nats spending big on SP in recent history.

It looks like they have at least $105 million before passing the Tax for the 2020 season.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I understand why people think they can't afford both Ant and Stras.

is Greg also ZDK?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #182: November 04, 2019, 11:15:02 AM »

As far as Rendon and Stras.  That's really not so much a short term money issue.  It's about Rizzo balking at giving out 8-10 years to Rendon of which 4-5 years are going to be dead money.   I'm sure they'd glady take Stras and Rendon on for 3x40 each.   The goal for this organization seems to be to be competitive every year and stay just under the cap.  Having long term deals that will inevitably lead to 30-40m/year in dead money does not work for that model.
somehow, I think 6 years, $35MM AAV, with an option for a 7th, I think gets Rendon.  Higher AAV than Arenado and I think the highest AAV for a position player.  If Rendon is real about not wanting to play too long, then maybe the AAV is the thing.  Heck, give him $36MM so it is  a higher AAV than Max, if there's an ego thing.

As for Stras, I hate going long for pitchers, so I'd hope 6 years, $30MM AAV would be good for him, but he's a total free agent.  That's still a discount to whatever stupid money NYY, SD, LAA, or PHI will put on the table, so maybe give him another opt out or two.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #183: November 04, 2019, 11:25:04 AM »
That would be a pretty good plot twist if we let Strasburg go, and picked up Cole.   It does seem plausible as Rizzo seems far more willing to go for big long term deals on pitchers, but not position players.

As far as Rendon and Stras.  That's really not so much a short term money issue.  It's about Rizzo balking at giving out 8-10 years to Rendon of which 4-5 years are going to be dead money.   I'm sure they'd glady take Stras and Rendon on for 3x40 each.   The goal for this organization seems to be to be competitive every year and stay just under the cap.  Having long term deals that will inevitably lead to 30-40m/year in dead money does not work for that model.

Further plot twist. Nats sign both Cole and Stras. Rendon goes elsewhere

Nats spend big on SP isn't a shock tho. They just won a World Series on Great SP, Timely hitting, and brass balls

I don't see Rendon coming back. They afforded $210/7 already right?

But I do see them spending big on SP

Offline catocony

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #184: November 04, 2019, 11:25:51 AM »
If Kieboom were an outfielder or first base, then fine, trading weak defense for a potential big bat is acceptable.  At 3rd or middle infield, weak defense is a killer.  He just turned 22 in September, and has three option years.  Will he play at some point in 2020?  Sure.  Should he penciled in as the starter at 3rd or 2nd right now?  Not if the Nats plan on winning the NL East next season.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #185: November 04, 2019, 11:29:15 AM »
Further plot twist. Nats sign both Cole and Stras. Rendon goes elsewhere

Nats spend big on SP isn't a shock tho. They just won a World Series on Great SP, Timely hitting, and brass balls

I don't see Rendon coming back. They afforded $210/7 already right?

But I do see them spending big on SP
Why stop there?

Nats sign Stras and Cole. Trade Scherzer to the Yankees for Tommy Kahnle, Miguel Andújar, and Jonathan Loaisiga. Sign Rendon to a long term deal.

Boom

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #186: November 04, 2019, 11:32:10 AM »
Why stop there?

Nats sign Stras and Cole. Trade Scherzer to the Yankees for Tommy Kahnle, Clint Frazier, and Jonathan Loaisiga. Sign Rendon to a long term deal.

Boom

I rather give Cole $210/7 over Rendon. Age a factor in that

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #187: November 04, 2019, 11:33:13 AM »
I rather give Cole $210/7 over Rendon. Age a factor in that
Rendon is three months older than Cole

Offline varoadking

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #188: November 04, 2019, 11:34:02 AM »
I rather give Cole $210/7 over Rendon. Age a factor in that

Cole and Rendon are both 29...

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #189: November 04, 2019, 11:36:15 AM »
If age is the issue, let Stras walk and go get Alex Wood

Offline awbb

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #190: November 04, 2019, 11:36:47 AM »
Cole is a really, really good pitcher.

I don't want him near the Nats.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #191: November 04, 2019, 11:39:28 AM »
Rendon is three months older than Cole

No sir. I mean that even factoring in age. I would still rather give Cole that over Rendon

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #192: November 04, 2019, 11:41:38 AM »
No sir. I mean that even factoring in age. I would still rather give Cole that over Rendon
Okay, but Cole is probably going to want 10 years. If Scherzer got 7 at 30, then Cole is going to want 8+ at 29.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #193: November 04, 2019, 11:47:42 AM »
Okay, but Cole is probably going to want 10 years. If Scherzer got 7 at 30, then Cole is going to want 8+ at 29.

$250/8 probably gets Cole. I would do that. I wouldn't give that to Rendon

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #194: November 04, 2019, 11:48:51 AM »
It's going to be hard to beat us if we have all the good starting pitchers and the other teams have none!

It seems pitchers age better than position players, so it makes sense that we are more willing to pay for UFA years of pitchers over position players.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #195: November 04, 2019, 11:59:11 AM »
$250/8 probably gets Cole. I would do that. I wouldn't give that to Rendon
Doubt it

Boras is going to want the highest AAV. And rightfully so.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #196: November 04, 2019, 11:59:22 AM »
It's going to be hard to beat us if we have all the good starting pitchers and the other teams have none!

It seems pitchers age better than position players, so it makes sense that we are more willing to pay for UFA years of pitchers over position players.
What do you base this on?

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #197: November 04, 2019, 12:04:10 PM »
Doubt it

Boras is going to want the highest AAV. And rightfully so.

How many years. What’s that contract look like?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #198: November 04, 2019, 12:10:06 PM »
How many years. What’s that contract look like?

8/280 or 9/310

Offline awbb

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Re: Hot Stove: 2019-2020 Offseason
« Reply #199: November 04, 2019, 12:17:11 PM »
The media were creaming themselves about Cole in FA. I am pretty sure someone on the tube (can't remember if it was Fox or MLB Network) was suggesting $40MM AAV was not totally out of the question.

There seemed to be a collective "gurk!" finger pulling collar moment when he pulled that stunt with the cap, though.

Nonetheless, I think it's going to be $35MM AAV for Cole. I can see someone desperate going to 10 years as well.

Ninja - I think Slate and I are on the same page here.