Author Topic: Extend Soto  (Read 44581 times)

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Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #600: December 01, 2021, 09:21:45 PM »
Anyone else think Soto could be an above-average first baseman at some point down the line when he slows down?
Sure. And DH.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #601: December 02, 2021, 09:38:08 AM »
Anyone else think Soto could be an above-average first baseman at some point down the line when he slows down?
No, but he'll make an excellent DH

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #602: December 02, 2021, 11:37:25 AM »
I wonder what the odds are that we lose a year of team control on Soto from a younger FA age?   Hopefully if they lower the age, they include mechanisms that make it more attractive to sign your own guys.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #603: December 02, 2021, 12:51:58 PM »
Anyone else think Soto could be an above-average first baseman at some point down the line when he slows down?

He's never played infield.  You can reasonably easily make infielders (or catchers, if they have the athleticism) into outfielders.  Not the reverse, even to 1B. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #604: December 02, 2021, 01:21:26 PM »
I wonder what the odds are that we lose a year of team control on Soto from a younger FA age?   Hopefully if they lower the age, they include mechanisms that make it more attractive to sign your own guys.
No. He's set to be a free agent long before any of the ages have been tossed around.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #605: December 02, 2021, 01:33:27 PM »
No. He's set to be a free agent long before any of the ages have been tossed around.

I thought the most recent players union proposal was free agency after 5 years of service or hitting age 30, whichever comes first.

That would bone us so hard.

 And in the lerners’ eyes it would give them an excuse to not resign him.

Offline hohoho

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #606: December 02, 2021, 07:12:32 PM »
He's never played infield.  You can reasonably easily make infielders (or catchers, if they have the athleticism) into outfielders.  Not the reverse, even to 1B.
If Stan Musial could do it…

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #607: December 02, 2021, 07:17:21 PM »
I thought the most recent players union proposal was free agency after 5 years of service or hitting age 30, whichever comes first.

That would bone us so hard.

 And in the lerners’ eyes it would give them an excuse to not resign him.
Not really. It still means that if he isnt signed long term and were not competing at the 2023 deadline, he has to be traded

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #608: December 02, 2021, 10:13:09 PM »
If Stan Musial could do it…

If that's how back you're going (and using a guy who'd pitched in the minors and thus wasn't totally green with grounders at the pro level)...

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #609: December 02, 2021, 11:25:50 PM »
I've seen two different sites ranking the MLB teams worth. In both rankings the Nats were in the top ten. It's time to keep a top position player instead of letting them go to free agency. Especially a guy like Soto who has so many positives.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #610: December 03, 2021, 06:50:10 AM »
I've seen two different sites ranking the MLB teams worth. In both rankings the Nats were in the top ten. It's time to keep a top position player instead of letting them go to free agency. Especially a guy like Soto who has so many positives.
Sorry. They will be paying Max for another seven years. It’s just business.

Offline blue911

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #611: December 03, 2021, 07:48:09 AM »
If Stan Musial could do it…

Joe DiMaggio,Mickey Mantle, Johnny Bench,and Mike Piazza couldn’t. So even with the most talented of players, the success rate is far below acceptable.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #612: December 03, 2021, 08:05:36 AM »
Joe DiMaggio,Mickey Mantle, Johnny Bench,and Mike Piazza couldn’t. So even with the most talented of players, the success rate is far below acceptable.
Billy Williams. Yaz. Hank Aaron. All played some 1B. Can’t say if they played it well.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #613: December 03, 2021, 09:32:52 AM »
Billy Williams. Yaz. Hank Aaron. All played some 1B. Can’t say if they played it well.

Notable theme here seems to be that moving outfielders to 1B and accepting the costs of that seems to have stopped being a thing when the DH came around.  I'm sure some guys can do it, but in general if a guy has the skills to play infield, teams use that skill the whole way up, even if only occasionally (see the A's with Mark Canha for a recent example). 

Even being able to play 1B at a major league level as a backup skill is sufficiently valuable that you see guys in the upper minors regularly switching back and forth between 1B and corner OF mid-game, including guys who are likely destined to be outfielders in the majors (same thing you see between the corners and CF, by the way).  It's usually apparent within a couple innings whether or not it's a feasible project.   That's a large part of why you rarely see that switch attempted in MLB these days: teams already know whether their OFs can play 1B or not because they tried it in AA. 

And on the rare occasions they don't, you get to see the experiment done on a major league level.  For example, the Dodgers tried Joc Pederson at 1B a couple years back.  They decided not to accept the costs of that. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #614: December 03, 2021, 09:53:52 AM »
Joe DiMaggio,Mickey Mantle, Johnny Bench,and Mike Piazza couldn’t. So even with the most talented of players, the success rate is far below acceptable.
Billy Williams. Yaz. Hank Aaron. All played some 1B. Can’t say if they played it well.
  Yaz actually was quite good at 1st, but he was a SS in high school and I think Notre Dame. Instead of talking 50 years ago, if Soto just fielded as well as Adam Dunn, the bat would still play at 1st. That said, it's irrelevant if the NL adopts the DH (Elvir is basically right - switches from OF to 1st mostly are in the NL).  That's where the JDs and the Stantons move to, not 1st. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #615: December 03, 2021, 10:28:20 AM »
First base is actually a lot more challenging than it was even ten years ago. Defensive shifts put more responsibilities on a first baseman

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #616: December 03, 2021, 11:29:13 AM »
First base is actually a lot more challenging than it was even ten years ago. Defensive shifts put more responsibilities on a first baseman


It's not that hard, Scott. Tell him Wash.


It's incredibly hard.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #617: December 03, 2021, 11:34:18 AM »

It's not that hard, Scott. Tell him Wash.


It's incredibly hard.
Hey, anything worth doing is.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #618: December 06, 2021, 09:50:06 PM »
Sorry. They will be paying Max for another seven years. It’s just business.

 The NATs are paying Max 15 million a year for the next 6 years. The Dodgers pick up the last year. That's a middle starter. It shouldn't prevent anything.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #619: December 06, 2021, 11:13:00 PM »
The NATs are paying Max 15 million a year for the next 6 years. The Dodgers pick up the last year. That's a middle starter. It shouldn't prevent anything.
They also owe Strasburg $10 million in deferred money from his prior contract. Also $2 million for Soriano and $1.5 million for Brad Hand. So $28.5 million.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals//payroll.

If you go to the table and look at 2023 the Strasburg money drops off but Brad Hand gets $3.5 million and Jon Lester $3.0 million for a signing bonus. Of course none of these count against the luxury tax salaries but it is money.  Unless they can keep signing free agents who will take deferred money it’s like a big Ponzi scheme where it all comes due. I think the Corbin contract and new Strasburg contract also have deferred money. So they will be paying this for years and years.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #620: December 07, 2021, 12:54:40 AM »
They also owe Strasburg $10 million in deferred money from his prior contract. Also $2 million for Soriano and $1.5 million for Brad Hand. So $28.5 million.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals//payroll.

If you go to the table and look at 2023 the Strasburg money drops off but Brad Hand gets $3.5 million and Jon Lester $3.0 million for a signing bonus. Of course none of these count against the luxury tax salaries but it is money.  Unless they can keep signing free agents who will take deferred money it’s like a big Ponzi scheme where it all comes due. I think the Corbin contract and new Strasburg contract also have deferred money. So they will be paying this for years and years.

The fact that money doesn't count as part of the luxury tax is a good reason why they need to finally keep a position player who is due big bucks. They're in the top 10 in value but are projected to be 19th in payroll in 2022. They can pay. The strategy to pay pitchers in the past has worked well but they've let Harper and Rendon go when it was time to pay up which I'm okay with but at some point they need to pay a position player too. Soto is the one they should be paying. All teams have players making ridiculous money except Tampa and even they ponied up for Wander Franco.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #621: December 07, 2021, 07:07:46 AM »
They're also paying Strasburg 35 million to not pitch and Corbin 23 million to be our number 5 starter

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #622: December 07, 2021, 07:08:03 AM »
The fact that money doesn't count as part of the luxury tax is a good reason why they need to finally keep a position player who is due big bucks. They're in the top 10 in value but are projected to be 19th in payroll in 2022. They can pay. The strategy to pay pitchers in the past has worked well but they've let Harper and Rendon go when it was time to pay up which I'm okay with but at some point they need to pay a position player too. Soto is the one they should be paying. All teams have players making ridiculous money except Tampa and even they ponied up for Wander Franco.
As a fan I agree but I think their attitude is they got their championship and now want to cut costs. 
BTW, Corbin's deferred money does start in 2025--$10 million that year.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #623: December 07, 2021, 08:23:45 AM »
Strasburg will get $26.7 million in deferred cash in each of 2027 through 2029. Another $4 million for a bonus on top of that in 2029. Chickens coming home to roost.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/stephen-strasburg-6865/

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #624: December 07, 2021, 08:27:06 AM »
They're also paying Strasburg 35 million to not pitch and Corbin 23 million to be our number 5 starter
That’s AAV. They are actually paying less in cash with the deferred money. Hopefully they are doing well in the stock market with that cash they are not paying out.