Author Topic: Extend Soto  (Read 3553 times)

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Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #175: September 29, 2020, 11:03:10 AM »
Pretty obvious they will move Soto to RF. I hope Robles gets his sprints in this offseason.

Gomes is still under contract and Pineda can be the backup

Theyll sign some JAG for 4th starter.

Thames can come back for first base

The one is fine
If you are not going to fix the other issues makes no sense to spend all that money on Ozuna.

Here are Ozuna’s stats.  He had one big year in 2017 and then this partial season.  Other than that not so great.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ozunama01.shtml

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #176: September 29, 2020, 11:53:00 AM »
If they sign Ozuna for $20 million who plays RF?  And who do they sign for C?  And the fourth starter? And 1B?  And help for the pen?

As I stated Suzuki for C and if the virus is contained and the NL adopts the DH Zim can fill that role and play 1B occassionaly. Stevenson is there to step in if Robles doesn't rebound. There are a ton of 1B available for a back up role. Fourth starter could be a tough one and I know the cupboard is bare but if anyone can pull it off Rizzo can. I am not thrilled with Hudson or Harris as closers but it seems to be a perennial problem with this team and Rizzo always seems to find a way. Voth, Fedde and Taylor as trade material?

I like Harrison as a utility guy. Not so much Holt. Cabrerra is a tough choice as is Howie (who is contemplating retiring).

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #177: September 29, 2020, 12:07:31 PM »
As I stated Suzuki for C and if the virus is contained and the NL adopts the DH Zim can fill that role and play 1B occassionaly. Stevenson is there to step in if Robles doesn't rebound. There are a ton of 1B available for a back up role. Fourth starter could be a tough one and I know the cupboard is bare but if anyone can pull it off Rizzo can. I am not thrilled with Hudson or Harris as closers but it seems to be a perennial problem with this team and Rizzo always seems to find a way. Voth, Fedde and Taylor as trade material?

I like Harrison as a utility guy. Not so much Holt. Cabrerra is a tough choice as is Howie (who is contemplating retiring).
Suzuki looks cooked to me.  Not clear if RZ wants to be back.  Which IB is available? I think Taylor is a free agent so cannot trade him. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #178: September 29, 2020, 01:06:47 PM »
If you are not going to fix the other issues makes no sense to spend all that money on Ozuna.

Here are Ozuna’s stats.  He had one big year in 2017 and then this partial season.  Other than that not so great.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ozunama01.shtml
You are correct.

Given that the entire success of the team is completely dependant on two starters who are well past 30 and have significant injury concerns, it doesnt make any sense to spend money on long term contracts.

And I wouldnt touch Ozuna with a ten foot pole.

Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #179: September 29, 2020, 01:47:44 PM »
If you are not going to fix the other issues makes no sense to spend all that money on Ozuna.

Here are Ozuna’s stats.  He had one big year in 2017 and then this partial season.  Other than that not so great.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ozunama01.shtml

He just led the league in dongs and ribs, during a global pandemic.  What more do you want?   :mg:

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #180: September 29, 2020, 01:52:47 PM »
You are correct.

Given that the entire success of the team is completely dependant on two starters who are well past 30 and have significant injury concerns, it doesnt make any sense to spend money on long term contracts.

And I wouldnt touch Ozuna with a ten foot pole.
They have to look for some bargains and hope they produce like Howie did.  Won't matter though if Strasburg is not healthy/

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #181: September 29, 2020, 02:10:15 PM »
He just led the league in dongs and ribs, during a global pandemic.  What more do you want?   :mg:

A defensive position he can play?

Offline DCFan

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #182: September 29, 2020, 02:17:34 PM »

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #183: September 29, 2020, 02:30:10 PM »
DH

So that's a no, then.   He's 30 over the offseason, coming off a career year, and can't play in the field.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #184: September 29, 2020, 02:58:04 PM »
You are correct.

Given that the entire success of the team is completely dependant on two starters who are well past 30 and have significant injury concerns, it doesnt make any sense to spend money on long term contracts.

And I wouldnt touch Ozuna with a ten foot pole.

His fielding in the NLCS keeps coming to mind as a red flag

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #185: September 29, 2020, 02:59:31 PM »
They have to look for some bargains and hope they produce like Howie did.  Won't matter though if Strasburg is not healthy/

Who knows, also there may be some benefits that end up surfacing from having some of the prospects train together mainly in one location rather than have to be spread among the different A leagues.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #186: September 29, 2020, 04:14:42 PM »
His fielding in the NLCS keeps coming to mind as a red flag
I dont care about his fielding. I'm highly suspicious of a guy with two really good seasons, one of which was 60 games. At 20+ mil anyway, with his terrible defense, he should be able to repeat an .850+ OPS, and he has only done it twice.

I'd rather take the chunk of that, give it to Joc Pederson, and then find an alternate for platoon splits.

Or just go get Trevor Bauer and fix our pitching development issues.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #187: September 30, 2020, 01:00:45 PM »
I dont care about his fielding. I'm highly suspicious of a guy with two really good seasons, one of which was 60 games. At 20+ mil anyway, with his terrible defense, he should be able to repeat an .850+ OPS, and he has only done it twice.

I'd rather take the chunk of that, give it to Joc Pederson, and then find an alternate for platoon splits.

Or just go get Trevor Bauer and fix our pitching development issues.
It's probably about time to add another big dollar pitcher.  A top of the rotation guy makes Max/Stras/Corbin look like pretty great 2/3/4 if they miss a bit of time.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #188: September 30, 2020, 01:14:09 PM »
It's probably about time to add another big dollar pitcher.  A top of the rotation guy makes Max/Stras/Corbin look like pretty great 2/3/4 if they miss a bit of time.
Would love Bauer. If for nothing else, he'd get all our younger pitchers to go to Drive Line

Offline imref

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #189: September 30, 2020, 01:33:40 PM »
With Max only under contract for another year (plus deferred money) now would be the time to sign his successor.

Offline dracnal

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #190: September 30, 2020, 03:01:41 PM »
With Max only under contract for another year (plus deferred money) now would be the time to sign his successor.

Alternately, given the way the team spends and who it chooses to lock down, you could say that Strasburg is Max's replacement. If they really want to rebuild around a core of Soto, Robles, Strasburg, Turner, and ?maybe Kieboom? then you're going to see Max walk and no big free agent pitcher signing. We don't have enough to offer in trade for a top flight pitcher unless they have an obscene contract, had an off year this season, and we take all the money. If we don't sign any big name free agent starters this year, than see you in 2023 - the rebuild is on. If they do sign a pitcher it means they're expecting to be competitive by 2022 at the latest and aren't going to go into full blow it up mode.

Offline imref

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #191: September 30, 2020, 03:33:13 PM »
Alternately, given the way the team spends and who it chooses to lock down, you could say that Strasburg is Max's replacement. If they really want to rebuild around a core of Soto, Robles, Strasburg, Turner, and ?maybe Kieboom? then you're going to see Max walk and no big free agent pitcher signing. We don't have enough to offer in trade for a top flight pitcher unless they have an obscene contract, had an off year this season, and we take all the money. If we don't sign any big name free agent starters this year, than see you in 2023 - the rebuild is on. If they do sign a pitcher it means they're expecting to be competitive by 2022 at the latest and aren't going to go into full blow it up mode.

Rizzo has always been a pitching-first type of GM though, it's his MO to pack his rotation with stars (well, except for Gio).  It may make more sense to focus on filling the #4 slot and hoping that Max, Stras, and Corbin can hold the front-end of the rotation together (anything has to be better than this past year) and wait until next year for a big FA signing.  I haven't looked at what's available this year and next.

Offline dracnal

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #192: September 30, 2020, 07:54:18 PM »
Rizzo has always been a pitching-first type of GM though, it's his MO to pack his rotation with stars (well, except for Gio).  It may make more sense to focus on filling the #4 slot and hoping that Max, Stras, and Corbin can hold the front-end of the rotation together (anything has to be better than this past year) and wait until next year for a big FA signing.  I haven't looked at what's available this year and next.

I fully agree he's pitching first, and that he'll sign someone in the offseason to pitch for us. That said, if he signs a Jason Marquis, Dan Haren, Chien-Ming Wong, or similar caliber, it's a very different message than picking up another 20 million dollar contract for a guy.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #193: September 30, 2020, 09:07:04 PM »
I fully agree he's pitching first, and that he'll sign someone in the offseason to pitch for us. That said, if he signs a Jason Marquis, Dan Haren, Chien-Ming Wong, or similar caliber, it's a very different message than picking up another 20 million dollar contract for a guy.
Dan Harren would cost 20 million in today's market

Offline dracnal

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #194: September 30, 2020, 10:12:49 PM »
Dan Harren would cost 20 million in today's market

Do you think that will be the case after the CBA negotiations? Salaries have simply ballooned to insane levels and it basically means you either get top dollar, settle for $9 million a year (I know, easy to settle for), or you're getting somewhere between league minimum and 2$ million. The folks between that two and nine range would be your Kendrick, Eaton, Zimmerman types where you're hoping to squeeze one more season out of their rapidly dying careers. Good bullpen guys (non-closer) likely sit in that range too.  Obviously, certain players have an incentive to drive the ceiling up, up, up and away. But not that many people are actually Bryce Harper, Anthony Rendon, or Machado.

One would hope the union tries to get the average salary bumped up and put a cap on handing out more and more ridiculous contracts. Of course, I have a generally skeptical view of many unions, and not sure they'd be acting in the best interests of all the players, or trying to work on getting the top dogs even more cash while depressing everyone else's salary.

Offline hohoho

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #195: September 30, 2020, 11:20:49 PM »
Do you think that will be the case after the CBA negotiations? Salaries have simply ballooned to insane levels and it basically means you either get top dollar, settle for $9 million a year (I know, easy to settle for), or you're getting somewhere between league minimum and 2$ million. The folks between that two and nine range would be your Kendrick, Eaton, Zimmerman types where you're hoping to squeeze one more season out of their rapidly dying careers. Good bullpen guys (non-closer) likely sit in that range too.  Obviously, certain players have an incentive to drive the ceiling up, up, up and away. But not that many people are actually Bryce Harper, Anthony Rendon, or Machado.

One would hope the union tries to get the average salary bumped up and put a cap on handing out more and more ridiculous contracts. Of course, I have a generally skeptical view of many unions, and not sure they'd be acting in the best interests of all the players, or trying to work on getting the top dogs even more cash while depressing everyone else's salary.
Really? Why would the unions do that?
PS: Why are the owners profits not “insane”? Why should the owners pocket all the money?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #196: October 01, 2020, 06:47:27 AM »
Do you think that will be the case after the CBA negotiations? Salaries have simply ballooned to insane levels and it basically means you either get top dollar, settle for $9 million a year (I know, easy to settle for), or you're getting somewhere between league minimum and 2$ million. The folks between that two and nine range would be your Kendrick, Eaton, Zimmerman types where you're hoping to squeeze one more season out of their rapidly dying careers. Good bullpen guys (non-closer) likely sit in that range too.  Obviously, certain players have an incentive to drive the ceiling up, up, up and away. But not that many people are actually Bryce Harper, Anthony Rendon, or Machado.

One would hope the union tries to get the average salary bumped up and put a cap on handing out more and more ridiculous contracts. Of course, I have a generally skeptical view of many unions, and not sure they'd be acting in the best interests of all the players, or trying to work on getting the top dogs even more cash while depressing everyone else's salary.
Player salaries have actually stayed pretty flat during this current CBA.

Offline dracnal

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #197: October 01, 2020, 08:52:24 AM »
Really? Why would the unions do that?
PS: Why are the owners profits not “insane”? Why should the owners pocket all the money?

I don't have a lot of faith in small groups representing a much larger whole. I am totally fine with seeing the luxury tax raised, or abolished in favor a flat salary cap, but I would like to see limits on just how big a contract can be, on an annualized basis,  because while it helps a very small handful of the elite talent, it leaves the rest fighting over table scraps in a doggy bag. I'd also like to the minor leaguers at all level get a noticeable pay bump. They wages they earn for everything short of AAA aren't really remotely enough to live on. The owners wanting to basically scrap those salaries and gut the minors is where I really see the ownership as being greedy and think they absolutely need to share the massive profits made by most teams.
 
Player salaries have actually stayed pretty flat during this current CBA.

The salaries for most of the mediocre to good players, definitely. The salaries for elite players have skyrocketed, to the point where signing an elite free agent makes it difficult to put a number of high quality pieces around him. One elite guy and 24 replacement level players is very, very unlikely to get the job done unless that one guy is Bugs Bunny.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #198: October 01, 2020, 09:04:55 AM »
I don't have a lot of faith in small groups representing a much larger whole. I am totally fine with seeing the luxury tax raised, or abolished in favor a flat salary cap, but I would like to see limits on just how big a contract can be, on an annualized basis,  because while it helps a very small handful of the elite talent, it leaves the rest fighting over table scraps in a doggy bag. I'd also like to the minor leaguers at all level get a noticeable pay bump. They wages they earn for everything short of AAA aren't really remotely enough to live on. The owners wanting to basically scrap those salaries and gut the minors is where I really see the ownership as being greedy and think they absolutely need to share the massive profits made by most teams.
 
The salaries for most of the mediocre to good players, definitely. The salaries for elite players have skyrocketed, to the point where signing an elite free agent makes it difficult to put a number of high quality pieces around him. One elite guy and 24 replacement level players is very, very unlikely to get the job done unless that one guy is Bugs Bunny.
No one forces any owner to pay a free agent an exorbitant salary.  Do the owners need protection from themselves?  If you have a flat cap or luxury tax line it already limits salaries.  As you said guys are underpaid early.  Just lower the years of team control and that will solve that issue. 

Offline varoadking

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #199: October 01, 2020, 09:16:06 AM »
No one forces any owner to pay a free agent an exorbitant salary.  Do the owners need protection from themselves?  If you have a flat cap or luxury tax line it already limits salaries.  As you said guys are underpaid early.  Just lower the years of team control and that will solve that issue.

Pay everyone the same base and give years of service increases only...