EXTEND DAVEY

[Greg_SRT]

You're right, the casual fan doesn't understand the 162. There are very few causal fans in baseball anymore.

The non-casual baseball fan would know that 1/4 of the season doesn't tell the story of a team and a season. But that isn't me either. See there was a season before that in which Davey managed. So no one is basing it on 1/4 of a season, but in fact almost 200 games of evidence.

Nothing to repent for. You, on the other hand, may want to consider repenting for your constant trolling.

No. 2018 too many injuries for key players at key points in the season.

Look the 19-31... we had key injuries. Got healthy, had a manager push the right buttons... boom! Dave and Nats to NLCS.

Also I am done with the personal arguing petty non sense. Please direct that elsewhere. Thanks in advance.

[Greg_SRT]

Rosenthal was coming off TJ surgery, had a long history of being wild (career 4.5 BB/9), no reason to believe he was going to suddenly be a 1.50 ERA stud.
Barraclough was even more wild in his history than Rosenthal and was not good in 2018
Sipp's career has been either up or down, and was available for insanely cheap in spring training

There were plenty of huge red flags. Previous closer experience means nothing when it was 4 years ago and he's had TJ surgery since then also just been bad since then. No one could have expected literally all the guys to be terrible, but there was also a huge chance it didn't work out. not like we had three all-stars from 2018 back there.

Good points

[Slateman]

Rosenthal was coming off TJ surgery, had a long history of being wild (career 4.5 BB/9), no reason to believe he was going to suddenly be a 1.50 ERA stud.
Barraclough was even more wild in his history than Rosenthal and was not good in 2018
Sipp's career has been either up or down, and was available for insanely cheap in spring training

There were plenty of huge red flags. Previous closer experience means nothing when it was 4 years ago and he's had TJ surgery since then also just been bad since then. No one could have expected literally all the guys to be terrible, but there was also a huge chance it didn't work out. not like we had three all-stars from 2018 back there.

To be fair, Rosenthal looked fine in workouts and SPring Training. Nothing to indicate he was going to have the problems he had in the regular season.

[Slateman]

No. 2018 too many injuries for key players at key points in the season.

Look the 19-31... we had key injuries. Got healthy, had a manager push the right buttons... boom! Dave and Nats to NLCS.

Also I am done with the personal arguing petty non sense. Please direct that elsewhere. Thanks in advance.

Aaron Boone is laughing at you so hard right now.

[varoadking]

What does being [edit to original post] have to do with this? I mean it helps in many aspects of life, but probably not in baseball analysis.

Edit - original language referred to by Bluestreak has been edited.  Nice catch and call out.

Damn...missed it...

[vernon337]

Has this team ever had an elite bullpen, with a lights-out closer, depth and solid choices both right-handed and left-handed?  What year had the best bullpen here?

[imref]

Has this team ever had an elite bullpen, with a lights-out closer, depth and solid choices both right-handed and left-handed?  What year had the best bullpen here?

End of 2017 after the Doolittle/Madson and Kintzler trades.

2012 playoff bullpen was solid but the starters sucked:  Pitchers: LHP Sean Burnett, LHP Ross Detwiler, LHP Gio Gonzalez, LHP Michael Gonzalez, LHP Tom Gorzelanny, RHP Tyler Clippard, RHP Christian Garcia, RHP Edwin Jackson, RHP Ryan Mattheus, RHP Craig Stammen, RHP Drew Storen, RHP Jordan Zimmermann

[bluestreak]

I hated Davey, I still don’t like him now, but I don’t hate him any more. I still think he sounds like a moron. But I can’t argue with results. Pulling out of the hole was a big accomplishment. And he has absolutely looked masterful in the playoffs. He’s pushed all the right buttons.
But I wasn’t wrong when I wanted him fired. He was clueless and lost and even with all of the injuries the team was better than the fourth worst record in baseball. The Nats would have been totally justified if they had canned him. But the team really seems to love playing for him.

But to say that firing him wasn’t justified after that sweep by the Mets is just revisionist history, especially after the disappointment of 2018.

[imref]

Using Corbin tonight was brilliant.

[GburgNatsFan]

I dunno, is it possible that Rizzo and others in the FO see and know things that we don't?

I hated Davey, I still don’t like him now, but I don’t hate him any more. I still think he sounds like a moron. But I can’t argue with results. Pulling out of the hole was a big accomplishment. And he has absolutely looked masterful in the playoffs. He’s pushed all the right buttons.
But I wasn’t wrong when I wanted him fired. He was clueless and lost and even with all of the injuries the team was better than the fourth worst record in baseball. The Nats would have been totally justified if they had canned him. But the team really seems to love playing for him.

But to say that firing him wasn’t justified after that sweep by the Mets is just revisionist history, especially after the disappointment of 2018.

[bluestreak]

I dunno, is it possible that Rizzo and others in the FO see and know things that we don't?

I’m willing to accept that. And I’m happy to have been ultimately proved wrong.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I dunno, is it possible that Rizzo and others in the FO see and know things that we don't?

goodness I'd hope so.

[vernon337]

But I wasn’t wrong when I wanted him fired.

You were wrong.

[Baseball is Life]

I hated Davey, I still don’t like him now, but I don’t hate him any more. I still think he sounds like a moron. But I can’t argue with results. Pulling out of the hole was a big accomplishment. And he has absolutely looked masterful in the playoffs. He’s pushed all the right buttons.
But I wasn’t wrong when I wanted him fired. He was clueless and lost and even with all of the injuries the team was better than the fourth worst record in baseball. The Nats would have been totally justified if they had canned him. But the team really seems to love playing for him.

But to say that firing him wasn’t justified after that sweep by the Mets is just revisionist history, especially after the disappointment of 2018.

You contradicted yourself about four times in this post.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

You contradicted yourself about four times in this post.

I can empathize. The beauty of "2 sentences, max" is it gives you less of a chance to say the opposite of what you just said

[Greg_SRT]

I hated Davey, I still don’t like him now, but I don’t hate him any more. I still think he sounds like a moron. But I can’t argue with results. Pulling out of the hole was a big accomplishment. And he has absolutely looked masterful in the playoffs. He’s pushed all the right buttons.
But I wasn’t wrong when I wanted him fired. He was clueless and lost and even with all of the injuries the team was better than the fourth worst record in baseball. The Nats would have been totally justified if they had canned him. But the team really seems to love playing for him.

But to say that firing him wasn’t justified after that sweep by the Mets is just revisionist history, especially after the disappointment of 2018.

I didn't think it was justified.

I didn't see a point making the change mid season since A) you didn't exactly have a reasonable replacement B) he hadn't lost the clubhouse and they were playing hard for him C) We all knew what the problem was, and it wasn't Dave... it was the Bullpen.

The big problem all year was the Bullpen. And it wasn't like any other manager was gonna make that bullpen any better.

[bluestreak]

You contradicted yourself about four times in this post.

TL;DR I hated Davey. There is no way anyone can reasonably argue that when the Nats were 19-31 that a firing wasn’t justifiable. Maybe you didn’t think they should, but at no point in the first two months of the season could anyone realistically  say, “ this is the guy that’s absolutely going to take us to the promised land”

I’m glad they didn’t. I’m happy to have been wrong. He still sounds like an idiot when he opens his mouth.

[djbaseball13]

Has this team ever had an elite bullpen, with a lights-out closer, depth and solid choices both right-handed and left-handed?  What year had the best bullpen here?

Yes we have had good/great bullpens. I think the 2005 bullpen was good, and overachievers. Chad "the Chief" Cordero was a solid closer, and we had some good set-up guys for a few years. We also had Tyler Clippard and other solid relievers through the years. The bullpen was a strength for the Nats for many years!

[djbaseball13]

I didn't think it was justified.

I didn't see a point making the change mid season since A) you didn't exactly have a reasonable replacement B) he hadn't lost the clubhouse and they were playing hard for him C) We all knew what the problem was, and it wasn't Dave... it was the Bullpen.

The big problem all year was the Bullpen. And it wasn't like any other manager was gonna make that bullpen any better.

Do you think Davey wanted to save our starters (arms) for the playoffs?  It's hard for me to believe that, but brilliant if true. We did have Doolittle and Scherzer go down, but they are fully recovered now!

[dracnal]

TL;DR I hated Davey. There is no way anyone can reasonably argue that when the Nats were 19-31 that a firing wasn’t justifiable. Maybe you didn’t think they should, but at no point in the first two months of the season could anyone realistically  say, “ this is the guy that’s absolutely going to take us to the promised land”

I’m glad they didn’t. I’m happy to have been wrong. He still sounds like an idiot when he opens his mouth.

Yeah, I agree with your take on it. While Davey is doing great atm, at the start of the season, the people calling for his head were totally justified.

[Baseball is Life]

TL;DR I hated Davey. There is no way anyone can reasonably argue that when the Nats were 19-31 that a firing wasn’t justifiable. Maybe you didn’t think they should, but at no point in the first two months of the season could anyone realistically  say, “ this is the guy that’s absolutely going to take us to the promised land”

I’m glad they didn’t. I’m happy to have been wrong. He still sounds like an idiot when he opens his mouth.

I have not heard much soaring oratory from MLB managers, tbh.

And I rarely read any posts on here of more than a couple of paragraphs, though yours' wasn't that long really.

[mitlen]

Keeping with the theme/title of this thread   .....   No

[Baseball is Life]

Keeping with the theme/title of this thread   .....   No

It's probably a done deal at this point. I bet they announce it soon after the postseason.

[blue911]

If Martinez had been fired on May 24, nobody would have thought he got a raw deal.

As it played out, the team picked themselves up off the mat and made the playoffs. Which is all anybody has the right to expect.

So it’s fine to say I’m not sold on him as a manager but the team did respond when it to nut cutting time. I still think he has a long way to go in bullpen management but that’s the hardest part of being a MLB manager. (The pitching coach has to take some blame for dry humping relievers). And he isn’t Matt Williams crappy.

[DCFan]

If Martinez had been fired on May 24, nobody would have thought he got a raw deal.

As it played out, the team picked themselves up off the mat and made the playoffs. Which is all anybody has the right to expect.

So it’s fine to say I’m not sold on him as a manager but the team did respond when it to nut cutting time. I still think he has a long way to go in bullpen management but that’s the hardest part of being a MLB manager. (The pitching coach has to take some blame for dry humping relievers). And he isn’t Matt Williams crappy.