Author Topic: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)  (Read 1565 times)

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Offline UMDNats

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #350: April 02, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »
Baker did fine with Albers and nothing else for four months. He fixed Harper too.

Bryce Harper's OPS+ dropped from 198 to 114 in Baker's first year. If you want to go by standard OPS, it dropped 200 points. Fixed!

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #351: April 02, 2019, 10:59:26 AM »
Bryce Harper's OPS+ dropped from 198 to 114 in Baker's first year. If you want to go by standard OPS, it dropped 200 points. Fixed!

New staff, Harper fell into bad habits, Baker fixed him.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #352: April 02, 2019, 11:03:53 AM »
Rosenthal has Martinez on the hot seat.

Quote
Players like Martinez — and that actually might be a problem. Well, part of the problem. Martinez’s bullpen management is a more tangible concern, and he raised questions with his choices in two of the Nationals’ first three games...The transition from bench coach to manager — from player liaison to authority figure — is often problematic... The trick now is for him to evolve into more of a presence, something that might be difficult for someone with an easygoing personality.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1113063701391716359?s=19

Online bluestreak

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #353: April 02, 2019, 11:04:11 AM »
How is it Martinez fault that Stras and Zim missed time? Was he not supposed to play them because they might get hurt?

AAV is irrelevant if the players aren't playing. Red Sox had the highest payroll in baseball last season. Do you think they're making the playoffs if Mookie Betts hits ~.250, JD Martinez only gets 320 plate appearances, Jackie Bradley Jr. and Xander Bogaerts play in less than 100 games, David Price starts ten fewer games, and Joe Kelley or Matt Barnes blew out their achilles in August?

The defense of any manager is that they need a relatively uninjured team. No one was winning with those injuries last season. No one.

Didn’t the Nats have a lot of injuries the year before. Maybe not quite as many, but 15 wins worth?

Strasburg started 26games in 2017 vs 22 games in 2018
Harper started 111 games in 2017 vs 159 in 2018
Turner started 98 games in 2017 vs 162 in 2018
Eaton started 23 games in 2017 vs 95 in 2018
Zimmerman started 144 games in 2017 vs 85 in 2018
Doolittle pitched 30 games in 2017 for the Nats vs 43 in 2018
Madson pitched 20 games for the Nats in 2017 vs 49 in 2018
Kendrick played 52 games for the Nats in 2017 vs 40 in 2018
Wieters played 123 games in 2017 vs 76 in 2018
Murphy played 144 games for the Nats in 2017 vs 56 in 2018

Juan Soto played *zero* games in 2017 vs 116 games in 2018

I think I hit all the major differences. Apologies if I missed something . Does less Murphy and Zimmerman and Kendrick make up for Less Turner and Harper and Eaton? And more importantly how much does
Soto offset the injuries. His emergence was totally found money.

I don’t think the above differences account for 15 wins.






Offline tzinc

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #354: April 02, 2019, 11:24:24 AM »
Dusty had Nats in first with injuries and no BP in a half season ... injuries are an excuse for losers

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #355: April 02, 2019, 12:21:01 PM »
Dusty had Nats in first with injuries and no BP in a half season ... injuries are an excuse for losers

I would say scapegoating the manager is an excuse for people who know less than they care to admit.

We all have opinions tho

Offline tzinc

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #356: April 02, 2019, 12:26:22 PM »
It is only scapegoating if he's not at fault but he is at fault he's terrible in all aspects of managing

Offline UMDNats

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #357: April 02, 2019, 12:32:40 PM »
New staff, Harper fell into bad habits, Baker fixed him.

Oh cool, so a new staff (Dusty not a part of this as manager, obviously) freaked up Harper after an MVP level season (under the oversight of the manager, who has no say in his staff or how his staff works, obviously, and the manager is clearly not working with Harper at all at this point - that's just ridiculous), but don't worry, Superhero Dusty fixed him in 2017! :clap:

I love Dusty but the level of worship and credit he gets for some individual players is ridiculous. The only guy I really buy it with is MAT.


Online bluestreak

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #358: April 02, 2019, 12:37:02 PM »
I don't think that Baker had anything to do with Harper in 2016 or 2017. I do, however, truly believe that he was partially responsible for Michael Taylor's breakout in 2017.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #359: April 02, 2019, 12:41:43 PM »
Oh cool, so a new staff (Dusty not a part of this as manager, obviously) freaked up Harper after an MVP level season (under the oversight of the manager, who has no say in his staff or how his staff works, obviously, and the manager is clearly not working with Harper at all at this point - that's just ridiculous), but don't worry, Superhero Dusty fixed him in 2017! :clap:

I love Dusty but the level of worship and credit he gets for some individual players is ridiculous. The only guy I really buy it with is MAT.

Harper is tough to manage, he wants to do his own thing, it took Baker and his staff a year to get into Bryce's head. Martinez never stood a chance. Guys like Harper and even Scherzer aren't going to make adjustments based on suggestions from a light weight like Mar.

Offline mitlen

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #360: April 02, 2019, 12:42:27 PM »
I don't think that Baker had anything to do with Harper in 2016 or 2017. I do, however, truly believe that he was partially responsible for Michael Taylor's breakout in 2017.

Agree.   He got through to Michael A. Taylor.   

Online Slateman

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #361: April 02, 2019, 12:45:10 PM »
Baker did fine with Albers and nothing else for four months. He fixed Harper too.

Lol, oh okay. Baker did "fine"

The pen was charged with 13 losses before Rizzo stepped in and fixed it.

And fixed Harper? Dusty Baker took a unanimous MVP and turned him into a ~4 WAR player.

Didn’t the Nats have a lot of injuries the year before. Maybe not quite as many, but 15 wins worth?

Strasburg started 26games in 2017 vs 22 games in 2018
Harper started 111 games in 2017 vs 159 in 2018
Turner started 98 games in 2017 vs 162 in 2018
Eaton started 23 games in 2017 vs 95 in 2018
Zimmerman started 144 games in 2017 vs 85 in 2018
Doolittle pitched 30 games in 2017 for the Nats vs 43 in 2018
Madson pitched 20 games for the Nats in 2017 vs 49 in 2018
Kendrick played 52 games for the Nats in 2017 vs 40 in 2018
Wieters played 123 games in 2017 vs 76 in 2018
Murphy played 144 games for the Nats in 2017 vs 56 in 2018

Juan Soto played *zero* games in 2017 vs 116 games in 2018

I think I hit all the major differences. Apologies if I missed something . Does less Murphy and Zimmerman and Kendrick make up for Less Turner and Harper and Eaton? And more importantly how much does
Soto offset the injuries. His emergence was totally found money.

I don’t think the above differences account for 15 wins.


Strasburg started 28 games in 2017.
Harper hit .319/.413/.595 before getting injured. He had 1.5 WAR more than his 2018 campaign.
Daniel Murphy was an MVP candidate and was in the hunt for a batting title. And hit for more power. His bat was significantly better than Soto's.
Ryan Zimmerman had an MVP type season.

Legimiately, you had four everyday players with ~400 PAs that OPS'd over .900 (compared to two) with a bench bat OPS .875. That's an enormous loss right there. Hell, Bryce Harper hitting 80 points less than the previous year is a devastating effect. That honestly probably cost the Nationals five games. When opposing teams know you're swinging for the fences and pitch accordingly, it's going to cost you games.

You couple that with losing Strasburg for six (or more starts) starts, losing most of your pen, and the division actually being competitive for the first time in 5 years, and yea, that makes up the difference.

Online Slateman

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #362: April 02, 2019, 12:46:04 PM »
Agree.   He got through to Michael A. Taylor.   
"Got through"

Oh you mean he gave him playing time because Eaton got hurt? Because that's what happened. Anyone actually believes that Dusty was some sort of magical bat whisper and fixed Taylor is a moran.

Online imref

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #363: April 02, 2019, 12:46:16 PM »
Did anyone see the Orioles manager take out their starter in the middle of a no-hitter?  His pitch count was in the low 80s, but he had throwing ~45 pitches on opening day. 

Offline mitlen

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #364: April 02, 2019, 12:48:54 PM »
"Got through"

Oh you mean he gave him playing time because Eaton got hurt? Because that's what happened. Anyone actually believes that Dusty was some sort of magical bat whisper and fixed Taylor is a moran.

No.    Some people communicate with certain other people,  i.e.  rapport.   I have nothing to support my feelings but I think Dusty was a mentor to Taylor beyond manager and player.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #365: April 02, 2019, 12:49:21 PM »
Did anyone see the Orioles manager take out their starter in the middle of a no-hitter?  His pitch count was in the low 80s, but he had throwing ~45 pitches on opening day. 

Had he qualified for the win?

Online Slateman

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #366: April 02, 2019, 12:53:38 PM »
Did anyone see the Orioles manager take out their starter in the middle of a no-hitter?  His pitch count was in the low 80s, but he had throwing ~45 pitches on opening day. 
You mean did anyone see the manager take out the young, innings limited pitcher after he showed signs of losing control and after very little workup in spring training for starter duty?

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #367: April 02, 2019, 12:57:52 PM »
Had he qualified for the win?
He got a Quality Start.

Online DCFan

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #368: April 02, 2019, 01:02:18 PM »
No.    Some people communicate with certain other people,  i.e.  rapport.   I have nothing to support my feelings but I think Dusty was a mentor to Taylor beyond manager and player.

It was the black on black thing coupled with the wisdom of an old veteran and star of the game who could get thru to MAT like he was his grandpa. Speaking of which, whatever happened to panther?

Offline mitlen

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #369: April 02, 2019, 01:04:16 PM »
It was the black on black thing coupled with the wisdom of an old veteran and star of the game who could get thru to MAT like he was his grandpa. Speaking of which, whatever happened to panther?

I do think it was a personal thing, not so much color, grandpa, etc. but a guy who sees himself in a kid and wants to help him out.    Happens all the time in all walks of life.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #370: April 02, 2019, 01:07:38 PM »
Or weed. Might have just been a good hook up for the kid.

I do think it was a personal thing, not so much color, grandpa, etc. thing but a guy who sees himself in a kid and wants to help him out.    Happens all the time in all walks of life.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #371: April 02, 2019, 01:11:07 PM »
Harper is tough to manage, he wants to do his own thing, it took Baker and his staff a year to get into Bryce's head. Martinez never stood a chance. Guys like Harper and even Scherzer aren't going to make adjustments based on suggestions from a light weight like Mar.

Good thing he's not the hitting coach of pitching coach then.

Offline mitlen

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #372: April 02, 2019, 01:12:59 PM »
Or weed. Might have just been a good hook up for the kid.


Dusty told Michael about Jimi.

Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #373: April 02, 2019, 10:08:56 PM »
Is it time to start the "Martinez "Death Watch" "

I hope

Online Slateman

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Re: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2019)
« Reply #374: April 02, 2019, 10:16:25 PM »
If this team wont play for Martinez, they wont play for anyone else.