zuckerman is the one who said "batting the pitcher 8th" (no direct quote from martinez) and there's a difference between messing around with your leadoff hitter for no reason and batting a rookie fast centerfielder 9th
The argument can be made for example in the case of Taylor, stuck at the bottom of the order because he stinks, and cannot improve because he's batting before the pitcher and so isn't going to get anything good to hit. Move him to nine, that's no longer true, and see what he can do. But did Martinez ever bat him ninth?
