PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[Slateman]

The point is, when you listen to him talk, you don't get the sense of any deep thinking (and that's putting it charitably).  Mostly clichés, and many of them are inapropriate - like today when he talked about "missed opportunities".  Given all this I do think the problem is the manager.   Sure, the players have to perform.  The manager is supposed to get them to perform.

Really? He sounds like every other manager. This is baseball, not some sort of deep thought experiment. Did Dusty sound particularly intelligent? Not really.

[Ray D]

Really? He sounds like every other manager. This is baseball, not some sort of deep thought experiment. Did Dusty sound particularly intelligent? Not really.

Yes, I thought Dusty had significant insight. So did Davey, when it wasn't past his bedtime.  Matt was another lamebrain like Martinez.

[bluestreak]

Really? He sounds like every other manager. This is baseball, not some sort of deep thought experiment. Did Dusty sound particularly intelligent? Not really.

Dave doesn’t sound too bright to me. Dusty sounded thoughtful and in actuality is quite bright.

[DPMOmaha]

Jeff Passan calls the clubhouse a "mess".

It’s not injuries that made the Nationals a 52-53 team. It’s the injuries and the culture and the bad luck and the mismanagement and the confluence of things that must mix together to render talent this impressive practically inert. It’s almost impossible to understand. And it’s a mess of their own making.

https://sports.yahoo.com/10-degrees-underachieving-nationals-reached-point-trading-bryce-harper-make-sense-164438671.html

[PowerBoater69]

Wow, devistating quote after devistating quote. I didn't even include the ones about how the Nats should reload via fire sale but won't.

Unfortunately this is not a surprise, this is exactly what was expected when Martinez was hired.

“The clubhouse is a mess,” said one source, whose account was corroborated by three others who spoke to Yahoo Sports on the condition of anonymity out of fear the organization would punish them for speaking publicly. While the sources pinpointed a number of causes for the internal acrimony, they agreed that it was not purely a function of the Nationals’ underachievement but something that has festered throughout the season.

While Martinez has forged good relationships with a number of the Nationals’ stars, including Bryce Harper, a number of players feel marginalized, according to sources.

One recent example, they said, was following Saturday’s loss to Miami. J.T. Realmuto, the Marlins’ All-Star catcher and a player coveted by the Nationals all winter, blooped a bases-loaded single down the right-field line for a walk-off victory. Harper’s response after the game: “If that guy was on our side, it wouldn’t have happened. Tough luck.”

A number of people inside the organization saw Harper’s comment as unprofessional and potentially divisive among his teammates, according to sources. Though all acknowledged the seed of truth in it, they also wondered why the Nationals would need Realmuto to win when they haven’t done so with a surfeit of talent already.

...his son, Mark, who’s expected to continue playing a far more hands-on role in baseball operations than most owners.

The likelier scenario is that Harper plays out the rest of the season in Washington, with the only team he ever has known, the one for whom letdown has become a defining feature

[bluestreak]

Jeff Passan calls the clubhouse a "mess".

https://sports.yahoo.com/10-degrees-underachieving-nationals-reached-point-trading-bryce-harper-make-sense-164438671.html

Biblical quote comes to mind. Something about sowing and reaping....

[HalfSmokes]

Wow, devistating quote after devistating quote. I didn't even include the ones about how the Nats should reload via fire sale but won't.

Unfortunately this is not a surprise, this is exactly what was expected when Martinez was hired.
 

a team that's made it clear that the name on the jersey is the most important consideration when the lineup card gets filled out has players who feel marginalized- shocking

[Ray D]

Steve Phillips on MLB XM this morning (around was talking about having spend some time in the Nats clubhouse during spring training, and said it was the quietest clubhouse he's ever seen. Nobody talking to anyone.  No music. Every player lost in his own world (i.e. electronic device). Phillips speculated that there is something seriously wrong.

[PowerBoater69]

a team that's made it clear that the name on the jersey is the most important consideration when the lineup card gets filled out has players who feel marginalized- shocking

Harper is being allowed to speak for the team and continue to be the voice of the franchise. Some one needs to shout him down.

[Vega]

Harper is being allowed to speak for the team and continue to be the voice of the franchise. Some one needs to shout him down.

I nominate Scherzer for that role.

[mitlen]

a team that's made it clear that the name on the jersey is the most important consideration when the lineup card gets filled out has players who feel marginalized- shocking

Harper is being allowed to speak for the team and continue to be the voice of the franchise. Some one needs to shout him down.

Not even shout him down.    With the catcher comment, someone could have simply said and let it be known, "He doesn't speak for me."

[Slateman]

a team that's made it clear that the name on the jersey is the most important consideration when the lineup card gets filled out has players who feel marginalized- shocking

Yes, but is the manager the one responsible for this, or is this the result of a culture made by someone higher up.

Like I said, trade Harper, we win the division.

[varoadking]

Yes, but is the manager the one responsible for this, or is this the result of a culture made by someone higher up.

Did anyone ask lil' d to address Royce's comment?  The Media is tap dancing around the Royce issue too...

[varoadking]

Like I said, trade Harper, we win the division.

So, we trade Royce and we'll just be:  "Waiting for the postseason"

[PowerBoater69]

Did anyone ask lil' d to address Royce's comment?  The Media is tap dancing around the Royce issue too...

They should ask him and press him harder, but what's the point? He just answers in clichés.

[UMDNats]

Man, that article rakes Martinez over the coals. Sadly it's not surprising. Things have not improved with health and while I point to the players more than anyone, he seems in over his head now. Rizzo is going to stand pat, trade no one, we're going to finish below .500 with the clubhouse destroyed, and they'll fire Martinez.

What's sad is that despite writing how we're a freaking mess and a disaster of a team, he's like, "Woah, they can't sell. The Braves are young! Man all those things I just wrote will disappear by tomorrow and the team will click on August 1!"

[varoadking]

Man, that article rakes Martinez over the coals. Sadly it's not surprising. Things have not improved with health and while I point to the players more than anyone, he seems in over his head now. Rizzo is going to stand pat, trade no one, we're going to finish below .500 with the clubhouse destroyed, and they'll fire Martinez.

What's sad is that despite writing how we're a freaking mess and a disaster of a team, he's like, "Woah, they can't sell. The Braves are young! Man all those things I just wrote will disappear by tomorrow and the team will click on August 1!"

Martinez will manage the guaranteed 3 years on his deal...I'm convinced of that...so,

[UMDNats]

Martinez will manage the guaranteed 3 years on his deal...I'm convinced of that...so,

I actually think he'd do better with a fresh roster next year and no Harper. But we'll see what happens. If we fire Davey after one year, we only further cement ourselves into the LOLNATS territory. Public perception of the team would be at an all-time low and even players would probably be like WTF.

We're already a laughingstock of baseball, though, so there's that. Can't go much lower.

[HalfSmokes]

I think he probably gets one more year. If he's lost the locker room, that'll make two managers out of the last three. At a certain point, this has to be on the GM

[UMDNats]

I think he probably gets one more year. If he's lost the locker room, that'll make two managers out of the last three. At a certain point, this has to be on the GM

Plus next year's locker room will be totally different so he'll have a chance to build it back together.

I never felt like this year's team was all pulling on the rope in the same direction. Just a bunch of guys playing on the field.

[varoadking]

Plus next year's locker room will be totally different so he'll have a chance to build it back together.

I never felt like this year's team was all pulling on the rope in the same direction. Just a bunch of guys playing on the field.

It started when the Face of the franchise opted out of Spring Training...and he's not going anywhere next year...

[UMDNats]

It started when the Face of the franchise opted out of Spring Training...and he's not going anywhere next year...

Sure, but I don't suspect that will happen again.

[Greg_SRT]

It started when the Face of the franchise opted out of Spring Training...and he's not going anywhere next year...

[mitlen]

Sure, but I don't suspect that will happen again.

Might be a mind fact but I remember hearing an adage to the effect that a tough manager (boss) can loosen up but a loose manager (boss) can't get tough.    Doesn't work on the guys who've seen him in "action".     

[comish4lif]

Great examples, perfect examples, both of those guys got ejected. Martinez went back to the dugout and cried to the media after the game. That's why the ump didn't bother conferring with his crew, no respect for Martinez. The Cubs won the game you cited where Maddon got tossed, maybe the Nats would have been more inspired by a manager who didn't give up.

Does anyone see Davey asn Manny Acta 2.0?