PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[Ray D]

A circle of flush.

A circle jerk.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Any one who thinks Martinez should turn over the post game buffet or bench people to motivate players doesn't know much about how to lead people. You lead people by mentoring and actually coaching.

Yeah, there's absolutely no medium between being a Lee Elia-level hothead and being a shrugging, bumbling, "aw shucks" Manny Acta clone.  No in-between at all.

[Ray D]

Any one who thinks Martinez should turn over the post game buffet or bench people to motivate players doesn't know much about how to lead people.

Worked for Joe Gibbs.

[aspenbubba]

I have doubts about Davey based on some of his horrible gafs so far but I'm certainly not ready to give up on him either. After a 9-1 start in 2016 under Dusty they went 14-15 in their next 29 and had a 7 game losing streak in June. I get the record was really good at the time of that losing streak I'm referring to but every team goes through a bad stretch or stretches, especially with injuries. 3 of their top 4 hitters are out plus Goodwin and you add a lousy pen to the mix that's not a formula for consistently winning games. I would have preferred a manager with experience given where this team is and the fact that their World Series window could be closing in the next few years, but I'm not making a firm judgment on Davey 28 games in.

I have doubts about Davey based on some of his horrible gafs so far but I'm certainly not ready to give up on him either. After a 9-1 start in 2016 under Dusty they went 14-15 in their next 29 and had a 7 game losing streak in June. I get the record was really good at the time of that losing streak I'm referring to but every team goes through a bad stretch or stretches, especially with injuries. 3 of their top 4 hitters are out plus Goodwin and you add a lousy pen to the mix that's not a formula for consistently winning games. I would have preferred a manager with experience given where this team is and the fact that their World Series window could be closing in the next few years, but I'm not making a firm judgment on Davey 28 games in.

There was no manager available with experience except Gardenshire IIRC

[Ray D]

There was no manager available with experience except Gardenshire IIRC

He'd have been fine.

[varoadking]

He'd have been fine.

He wasn't about to work for Lerners peanuts...

[bluestreak]

He wasn't about to work for Lerners peanuts...

I can’t find Gardenhire’s salary anywhere.  What is it?

[Jeff in Gaithersburg]

There was no manager available with experience except Gardenshire IIRC

I was hoping for Farrell actually, and as a 2nd choice ironically I was thinking Chip Hale. 

[skippy1999]

I was hoping for Farrell actually, and as a 2nd choice ironically I was thinking Chip Hale. 

Farrell and Gardenhire? That’s who we’re pining for now? experience does not equal a good manager, just as inexperience does not equal a bad manager.  And though Davey has not inspired much confidence it doesn’t change the fact we’re not hitting, at all, not sure how he’s supposed to change that.

[Jeff in Gaithersburg]

Farrell and Gardenhire? That’s who we’re pining for now? experience does not equal a good manager, just as inexperience does not equal a bad manager.  And though Davey has not inspired much confidence it doesn’t change the fact we’re not hitting, at all, not sure how he’s supposed to change that.

I was hoping for Farrell *before* Davey was hired, but like I said I'm not giving up on Davey yet. I do worry about Davey losing the clubhouse if he keeps getting brain freeze at key times. The lack of hitting right now is definitely not Davey's fault.

[bluestreak]

I was hoping for Farrell actually, and as a 2nd choice ironically I was thinking Chip Hale.

Given the Nats history, why would you bring us somebody who has actually demonstrated that he has lost a clubhouse?

[aspenbubba]

He wasn't about to work for Lerners peanuts...

Dusty was making close to 2 mil which put him well above average for managers. DM is getting less but I cannot recall how much over the three year period. Gardenshire is not getting more than Dusty.

[PowerBoater69]

Dusty was making close to 2 mil which put him well above average for managers. DM is getting less but I cannot recall how much over the three year period. Gardenshire is not getting more than Dusty.

There is no known average for managers. We do know that Baker had asked for a raise and he was already making more than double per year the total guaranteed portion of Martinez's contract.

[LoveAngelos]

I would like to get this guy

[Baseball is Life]

Never mind a buffet tirade, you wouldn't bench a guy who wasn't performing up to standards? Benching guys has been a big motivator in baseball for decades...IOW get the job done, or the next man in line's got your job unless you straighten out. Not suggesting any Nats need benched right now, but just sayin'....

You don't bench people who you believe in and are counting on. You work with them to turn them around. Now if you want to to altogether get rid of a guy who you've lost faith in, that's another story. But that's not benching.

[Baseball is Life]

Worked for Joe Gibbs.

Joe Gibbs was loyal to his players to a fault. Now if he didn't think you could do it anymore he would let you loose but that's not benching.

[Greg_SRT]

Here is some interesting team stats

The Nats are 11th in the NL in runs allowed with 120. However if you take that April 3rd game with the 10 runs allowed in 3 and 2/3 innings by Cole and replace it with something reasonable... say 3, then the Nats would be 113 runs allowed. Tied for 6th best. That's with just 1 Cole appearance.

A pretty big jump.

The Nats are the 2nd best team in the NL behind Arizona in Batting Average Against with .222. 4th in Walks. 1st in Strikeouts.

Lets move to Batting.

Nats are 5th highest team in NL in Hits. 4th best in Total Bases. 3rd in Home Runs(31). 4th in On Base. 1st in Stolen Bases.

9th in Runs(123)!!!

The Nats are 28th (of 30) in runners left on base. As in 3rd worst in all of Baseball.

I'm sorry but when I look at the numbers, I don't see a Dave problem. I see a get runners home problem.

I know people will immediately point to Eaton, Rendon, Murphy, and Goodwin on the DL and assume those guys coming back would solve that. But...

Wieters, MAT, Zimm, and Pitchers spot are 4 of 9 that aren't producing. Almost half your lineup not getting it done isn't an ELITE lineup.

Severino takes starting Catcher spot (best option right now), Murphy takes 1st base (Howie stays 2nd).

1. Turner
2. Eaton
3. Rendon
4. Harper
5. Murphy
6. Howie
7. Taylor/ Goodwin
8. Severino

[BuckyHarris]

1. Turner
2. Eaton
3. Rendon
4. Harper
5. Murphy
6. Howie
7. Taylor/ Goodwin
8. Severino

Impressive. So all we have to do is get four guys back to stay. (And break the news to Zim.)

[imref]

Dave Roberts benched Cody Bellinger in the 5th for not running out a hit ball.  Sending a message?

https://deadspin.com/the-dodgers-are-struggling-and-dave-roberts-made-an-exa-1825648575

[PowerBoater69]

Dave Roberts benched Cody Bellinger in the 5th for not running out a hit ball.  Sending a message?

https://deadspin.com/the-dodgers-are-struggling-and-dave-roberts-made-an-exa-1825648575

Williams did that to Harper and the "you don't do that to people" crowd had a melt down. Four years later it's the same story.

[Natsinpwc]

Williams did that to Harper and the "you don't do that to people" crowd had a melt down. Four years later it's the same story.

Harper should have been benched when he didn't run out that ball a couple weeks ago.

Roberts seems to be in a bit of a panic. I don't see that Bellinger did anything very wrong.

[Greg_SRT]

How many games has Harper not played in this year?

He knows he needs to stay healthy. He is playing cautiously.

[Natsinpwc]

You don't bench people who you believe in and are counting on. You work with them to turn them around. Now if you want to to altogether get rid of a guy who you've lost faith in, that's another story. But that's not benching.

I wouldn't rule it out. You need to keep your options open. Jimmy Rollins did it to Charlie Manuel. He initially did nothing and it continued. Finally he benched him. Didn't have those issues after that. At least until 2012 and the team stink by then. Charlie was a players manager.

https://www.google.com/www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-mike-schmidt-manuel-was-right-bench-rollins-2008jun10-story,amp.html

[Natsinpwc]

How many games has Harper not played in this year?

He knows he needs to stay healthy. He is playing cautiously.

jogging for the first 60 feet and then running full out the last 30 is dumb and not cautious. I don't want him running into walls either.

[van lingle mungo]

You don't bench people who you believe in and are counting on. You work with them to turn them around.

You do both. If your sub-performing player is dragging the team down with him, you put him on the pine for as long as you need to until he can be worked back into position. Are you new to baseball? Guys lose their jobs all of the time and regain them. Recent Nats case in point - Espinosa