Author Topic: Bull Pen Construction for 2020  (Read 2426 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The Chief

  • Posts: 31570
    • http://www.wnff.net
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #50: November 01, 2019, 09:40:56 AM »
I would love to have both of them back but I echo other sentiments expressed here in that I expect Strasburg will return and Rendon will not.  Rendon is a very hard read, honestly.  Strikes me as someone who plays things close to the vest.

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 9655
  • Team America 2019
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #51: November 01, 2019, 09:46:46 AM »
On topic, expect some real trash in the bullpen this offseason.

I have no idea the market for Hudson, but I doubt the Nationals pay too much for him. I think Doolittle is back, though not sure the specifics. I expect they'll keep Doolittle and either keep Hudson or sign a useful setup reliever. As far as middle relief? Expect some 2008 or 2009 quality names filling it out. They've had too many straight season of being able to find bandaids at the deadline to change their approach now.

Online imref

  • Posts: 31642
  • Redemption
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #52: November 01, 2019, 10:31:08 AM »
On topic, expect some real trash in the bullpen this offseason.

I have no idea the market for Hudson, but I doubt the Nationals pay too much for him. I think Doolittle is back, though not sure the specifics. I expect they'll keep Doolittle and either keep Hudson or sign a useful setup reliever. As far as middle relief? Expect some 2008 or 2009 quality names filling it out. They've had too many straight season of being able to find bandaids at the deadline to change their approach now.

Gotta trade one of Ross, Voth, Fedde, or Crowe for BP help

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 9655
  • Team America 2019
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #53: November 01, 2019, 10:32:57 AM »
Gotta trade one of Ross, Voth, Fedde, or Crowe for BP help
They aren't moving Joe Ross after his late success as a starter. Voth and Fedde won't give you anything. Crowe may.

Those are the type of passable names you may be able to move in July to teams trying to shed salary.

Offline Trea Burner

  • Posts: 415
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #54: November 01, 2019, 10:33:59 AM »
Rizzo’s bullpen construction is still garbage. His kryptonite.

Congrats to Stras/Max/Corbin/Anibal for seizing the moment during their starts. Kudos to Doolittle and Hudson for being competent bullpen options. Honorable mention to Rainey.

For the nats to win with that bullpen is a) mind blowing and b) demonstrates how good those big 3 SPs were.

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 9655
  • Team America 2019
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #55: November 01, 2019, 10:37:12 AM »
From 2010 to 2016, the Nationals every season but maybe two head top 5 bullpens in the NL. Lots of arms. The last three seasons have been a disaster.

Offline nfotiu

  • Posts: 3837
  • Juan Soto aka Human Wildcat
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #56: November 01, 2019, 10:50:33 AM »
On topic, expect some real trash in the bullpen this offseason.

I have no idea the market for Hudson, but I doubt the Nationals pay too much for him. I think Doolittle is back, though not sure the specifics. I expect they'll keep Doolittle and either keep Hudson or sign a useful setup reliever. As far as middle relief? Expect some 2008 or 2009 quality names filling it out. They've had too many straight season of being able to find bandaids at the deadline to change their approach now.
Doolittle didn't earn his option, and I assume the Nats will pick up their end of the option.   I expect they bring back Hudson at 3-4 million.  Elias is still under team control, and hopefully will be good once healthy.   Rainey should continue to develop into a good option.   Suero is still young and cheap, and should be fine in a reduced roll.

Offline spidernat

  • Posts: 76205
  • The Lerners are Cheap AND Crooked
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #57: November 01, 2019, 10:51:16 AM »
Strickland is also under team control.

Offline RobDibblesGhost

  • Posts: 30352
Re: Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #58: November 01, 2019, 10:51:40 AM »
Strickland is also under team control.

Season.

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 9655
  • Team America 2019
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #59: November 01, 2019, 12:48:10 PM »
Strickland is also under team control.
He'll be useful come the Phillies series if Harper starts chirping :stir:

Online imref

  • Posts: 31642
  • Redemption
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #60: November 01, 2019, 12:59:28 PM »
Doolittle is a $6.5 million team option or $500k buyout for 2020, seems like a no-brainer that we pay the $6.5.

Beyond that, sporttrac estimates:

Arb eligible:
Elias - $1.9
Strickland - $1.9
Guerra - $1.4
Glover - $700k

We still owe Rafeal Soriano $2 million, and Sipp is on the books for $2.5 though we could buy him out for $250k.

I'd guess we keep Elias, Guerra, and Glover, buy out Sipp, and let Strickland walk.

So you are heading into 2020 with Doolittle, Suero, Rainey, Elias, and Guerra, and hoping you can get something out of Glover.  Beyond that, it's fill in the pieces.  You need another LH option at a minimum.  Maybe a flier on Strickland for $1.9 isn't a bad risk?

Offline Five Banners

  • Posts: 988
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #61: November 01, 2019, 01:21:02 PM »


We still owe Rafeal Soriano $2 million

 Factoids like this really make what happened look all the more remarkable

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 54600
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #62: November 01, 2019, 01:45:33 PM »
I think they should just convert Fedde to a reliever. His breaking stuff is good enough and out of the pen, he hits mid 90s

Offline nfotiu

  • Posts: 3837
  • Juan Soto aka Human Wildcat
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #63: November 01, 2019, 01:50:17 PM »
Doolittle is a $6.5 million team option or $500k buyout for 2020, seems like a no-brainer that we pay the $6.5.

Beyond that, sporttrac estimates:

Arb eligible:
Elias - $1.9
Strickland - $1.9
Guerra - $1.4
Glover - $700k

We still owe Rafeal Soriano $2 million, and Sipp is on the books for $2.5 though we could buy him out for $250k.

I'd guess we keep Elias, Guerra, and Glover, buy out Sipp, and let Strickland walk.

So you are heading into 2020 with Doolittle, Suero, Rainey, Elias, and Guerra, and hoping you can get something out of Glover.  Beyond that, it's fill in the pieces.  You need another LH option at a minimum.  Maybe a flier on Strickland for $1.9 isn't a bad risk?

You'd think there'd be mutual interest for Hudson.   And there's reason to hope that Strickland can return to his previous year's self with a full off season to recover.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 28634
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #64: November 01, 2019, 02:21:46 PM »
w//r/t Hudson, I don't think he's going to be viewed like peak Andrew Miller and get closer money to set up.  He should get paid more like his 2017-18 money ($5.5MM per) than his 2019 cost ($1.5MM), but I doubt he's much more than $6MM.  I'd be very comfortable bringing him back for that. 

So, if you figure Doo and Huddy for 2 slots, Rainey and Suero, that leaves 3 more slots. One of those slots can be a Fedde or Voth.  I'm queasy about both Strickland and Elias.  They both seem to be paid for a physical feature (Strickland - throws ~ 100!; Elias - throws with a left arm!) rather than performance.  What you are looking for would be a potential 7th inning guy to push Suero and Rainey down on the pecking order, who could be a righty, and maybe a lefty specialist. Go that way, and it isn't Elias. If it is a second lefty who can slot into the set up role, then the righty might be a guy who dominates righties (Joe Smith type), but Rainey shows signs of being that guy.

Offline zimm_da_kid

  • Posts: 7019
  • Show me Otani
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #65: November 01, 2019, 02:39:25 PM »
Doolittle, Hudson, Rainey, suero, Strickland, Elias, +1

Look for minor Leaguers Matt Cronin, Steven Fuentes, or jhonathan German to step in if the big league pen has poor performance

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 3410
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #66: November 01, 2019, 03:22:09 PM »
Doolittle, Hudson, Rainey, suero, Strickland, Elias, +1

Look for minor Leaguers Matt Cronin, Steven Fuentes, or jhonathan German to step in if the big league pen has poor performance

One of those guys hasn't pitched above low-A ball, the next was suspended for PEDs in AA, and the third will be 25 in January and has barely reached AA.  What suggests that any of them is potentially useful in the majors next season?

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 17872
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #67: November 01, 2019, 03:25:43 PM »
One of those guys hasn't pitched above low-A ball, the next was suspended for PEDs in AA, and the third will be 25 in January and has barely reached AA.  What suggests that any of them is potentially useful in the majors next season?

Kush

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 3410
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #68: November 01, 2019, 03:32:55 PM »
Kush

Gotta start early on a Friday, I guess.

Offline zimm_da_kid

  • Posts: 7019
  • Show me Otani
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #69: November 01, 2019, 09:10:40 PM »
One of those guys hasn't pitched above low-A ball, the next was suspended for PEDs in AA, and the third will be 25 in January and has barely reached AA.  What suggests that any of them is potentially useful in the majors next season?

Numbers.  German and Fuentes to AAA to start the year and see how they handle the pcl.  Cronin will probably start at a+ or AA.  At least one will emerge as serviceable or even great next year

Offline Truconfidence

  • Posts: 3467
Re: Planning the 2020 Bullpen
« Reply #70: November 01, 2019, 10:21:27 PM »
Numbers.  German and Fuentes to AAA to start the year and see how they handle the pcl.  Cronin will probably start at a+ or AA.  At least one will emerge as serviceable or even great next year
German scouting report looks promising.  Cronin, I think will be a MLB closer for sure one day. Doolittle like Fastball and a snap dragon curve.

Online imref

  • Posts: 31642
  • Redemption
Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #71: December 16, 2019, 01:17:33 PM »
Zuck was asked about the fate of Voth/Ross/Fedde in today's chat, he noted that Fedde, because he used up his 3 options before his fifth season, actually still has another option.  He speculate either Voth or Ross will get the #5 slot, with the other in the bullpen, and Fedde starts out in the minors.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

  • Posts: 1824
Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #72: December 16, 2019, 01:33:29 PM »
Zuck was asked about the fate of Voth/Ross/Fedde in today's chat, he noted that Fedde, because he used up his 3 options before his fifth season, actually still has another option.  He speculate either Voth or Ross will get the #5 slot, with the other in the bullpen, and Fedde starts out in the minors.

I think with his finish Ross should have first crack at the 5th spot, Voth as the long/swing guy, and Fedde waiting in AAA or AA to be closer.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 3410
Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #73: December 16, 2019, 02:51:01 PM »
Numbers.  German and Fuentes to AAA to start the year and see how they handle the pcl.  Cronin will probably start at a+ or AA.  At least one will emerge as serviceable or even great next year

Yeah, how'd that work out for Bourque, Williams, Adams and the rest of the scrap heap from last year that had good AA and AAA numbers in 2018?  Those dudes had better numbers at higher levels and did absolutely nothing useful in the majors last year. 

I think with his finish Ross should have first crack at the 5th spot, Voth as the long/swing guy, and Fedde waiting in AAA or AA to be closer.

I think you also might want to sign a couple mid-relief/setup guys and push Suero to the minors.  It sucks to be the dude who has options, but it sucks even more to be the team who doesn't have any reliever depth waiting in the minors for the inevitable injuries. 

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

  • Posts: 1824
Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #74: December 16, 2019, 03:05:48 PM »
Yeah, how'd that work out for Bourque, Williams, Adams and the rest of the scrap heap from last year that had good AA and AAA numbers in 2018?  Those dudes had better numbers at higher levels and did absolutely nothing useful in the majors last year. 

I think you also might want to sign a couple mid-relief/setup guys and push Suero to the minors.  It sucks to be the dude who has options, but it sucks even more to be the team who doesn't have any reliever depth waiting in the minors for the inevitable injuries.

I'm sure we will build "depth" with some cheap bounceback/dart throw signings, but Suero is going to start the season in the big league bullpen.  He'll have to pitch poorly for a month or so to get sent down.  He showed enough promise last year.