Author Topic: Bull Pen Construction for 2020  (Read 2771 times)

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Online aspenbubba

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Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Topic Start: October 07, 2019, 08:18:42 AM »
Just thought I would be the placeholder as the BP has de-railed this season. Who would you want back besides Hudson (pending FA) and possibly Doolittle. Can we jettison Strickland even if he is under control for one more year? Dump Guerra , Rodney , Suero as soon as possible.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #1: October 07, 2019, 08:34:26 AM »
Do we even want Hudson back?

He'll be 33 to start next season. He's tore his UCL twice. He seemed to outperform his FIP this season, and it was the first time in 4 seasons he's posted an ERA under 4. Doesn't seem like a particularly smart buy, especially if his second half/postseason performance drives the price up.

They can non-tender Strickland (and Grace).

I'd like to see Fedde converted to a reliever. He seems to be better as a reliever.


Will Smith and Drew Pomeranz need to be the primary targets in free agency. Will Harris will be a free agent, but he's also 35.

Offline hotshot

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #2: October 07, 2019, 09:06:22 AM »
I haven't totally given up on Rainey at this point. Worth another look?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #3: October 07, 2019, 09:13:57 AM »
Yea, I can stick with Rainey. I supposed you have to stick with Elias because of his salary.

Offline vicki4471

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #4: October 07, 2019, 09:20:53 AM »
Who are the options for closer in the 2020 class? We definitely need a lights out closer.. Doolittle cannot be that any more..He really was not that in the first place. He was just the best option of what we had.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #5: October 07, 2019, 09:24:42 AM »
Who are the options for closer in the 2020 class? We definitely need a lights out closer.. Doolittle cannot be that any more..He really was not that in the first place. He was just the best option of what we had.
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/relief-pitcher/

Assuming the Nats re-sign Strasburg for a 28 million AAV, they can't afford a big closer and get another bat.

Online aspenbubba

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #6: October 07, 2019, 09:35:02 AM »
Do we even want Hudson back?

He'll be 33 to start next season. He's tore his UCL twice. He seemed to outperform his FIP this season, and it was the first time in 4 seasons he's posted an ERA under 4. Doesn't seem like a particularly smart buy, especially if his second half/postseason performance drives the price up.

They can non-tender Strickland (and Grace).

I'd like to see Fedde converted to a reliever. He seems to be better as a reliever.


Will Smith and Drew Pomeranz need to be the primary targets in free agency. Will Harris will be a free agent, but he's also 35.


I should have said "will we" to jettisoning Strickland

I have promoted Fedde to the BP for several years now.

I'm good with a non-tender to both Strickland , Grace and probably Suero (but it won't happen for Suero) but are we on the hook for Stricklands salary for 2020?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #7: October 07, 2019, 09:50:29 AM »
I should have said "will we" to jettisoning Strickland

I have promoted Fedde to the BP for several years now.

I'm good with a non-tender to both Strickland , Grace and probably Suero (but it won't happen for Suero) but are we on the hook for Stricklands salary for 2020?
Strickland is still under arbitration years, so no, I don't think we are. I could see hanging on to Suero because he's so cheap.

The problem is the Nats need 2-4 other decent pitchers, and don't have the payroll to add them, and it doesn't look like the farm system has any prospects that you can expect to come up.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #8: October 07, 2019, 10:06:21 AM »
I just look at the way Suero's cutter moves and his velocity and I think he has to be kept.  We just can't walk into the year expecting to hand him the 8th or 9th.  He's a bullpen B guy for next year (pitches when we are behind or very early in games) and we can gradually up his leverage if he earns it.  Doo is dirt cheap and he's back.  Beyond that, I like Hudson, maybe Fedde or another starter like Ross should be converted, but I think there's value in having them as depth at starter.  That leaves us with 5 or so slots.  That is a heavy lift.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #9: October 07, 2019, 10:08:50 AM »
Doolittle
FA
Rainey
Suero
Strickland
Elias
Fedde

That's the bullpen. Like JCA Suero does still have a lot of upside. Hudson I'd bring back on a one-year deal. I'd invite Guerra to camp on a MiLB deal. Rainey is likely up-and-down next year as I believe he has options. The team seems to believe Elias is a lefty matchup guy when he literally is the opposite of that. There's upside in guys like Strickland and Suero and Rainey and I think we add a guy or 2 like Rosenthal to rely less on them.

We don't have the money to overhaul the bullpen and I wouldn't trust this team to spend that wisely anyways.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #10: October 07, 2019, 10:10:30 AM »
I just look at the way Suero's cutter moves and his velocity and I think he has to be kept.  We just can't walk into the year expecting to hand him the 8th or 9th.  He's a bullpen B guy for next year (pitches when we are behind or very early in games) and we can gradually up his leverage if he earns it.  Doo is dirt cheap and he's back.  Beyond that, I like Hudson, maybe Fedde or another starter like Ross should be converted, but I think there's value in having them as depth at starter.  That leaves us with 5 or so slots.  That is a heavy lift.
Doolittle isn't "dirt cheap" if he can't face righties.

Doolittle
FA
Rainey
Suero
Strickland
Elias
Fedde

That's the bullpen.
That is a garbage pen.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #11: October 07, 2019, 10:21:50 AM »
Doolittle isn't "dirt cheap" if he can't face righties.
Didn't have a problem 1st half of the year. He's not right right now, but offseason and more full recovery time he'll be fine.  $6.5MM option ($0.5MM buyout), you pick up. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #12: October 07, 2019, 10:22:39 AM »
Didn't have a problem 1st half of the year. He's not right right now, but offseason and more full recovery time he'll be fine.  $6.5MM option ($0.5MM buyout), you pick up. 
You're assuming he can recover. It's possible that the second half was just the beginning of his regression.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #13: October 07, 2019, 10:26:45 AM »
That is a garbage pen.

Years of failing at any kind of pitcher development will do that. Unless the team wants to cut their losses with Seuro, Strickland, Rainey and Elias those 4 will be in the bullpen.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #14: October 07, 2019, 10:26:56 AM »
You're assuming he can recover. It's possible that the second half was just the beginning of his regression.
at $6 MM net, you aren't going to find anyone more reliable either as a closer or as a set up guy. 

Offline Smithian

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #15: October 07, 2019, 10:27:40 AM »
I was mad at Dave Martinez yesterday for bringing in Corbin as a reliever, then realized his other options are worse on paper.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #16: October 07, 2019, 11:24:58 AM »
I was mad at Dave Martinez yesterday for bringing in Corbin as a reliever, then realized his other options are worse on paper.

For me it was less who, than when...

Offline Expos

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #17: October 07, 2019, 11:54:25 AM »
It doesn't matter. Every single reliever we bring in sucks as soon as they get here. Then once they leave they go on to have success.

Take Hunter Strickland for example. He has a career 3.16 ERA and a 1.198 WHIP then he gets here and his ERA is 5 14 and WHIP is 1.333

It happens to them all.

Online imref

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #18: October 07, 2019, 12:02:06 PM »
It doesn't matter. Every single reliever we bring in sucks as soon as they get here. Then once they leave they go on to have success.

Take Hunter Strickland for example. He has a career 3.16 ERA and a 1.198 WHIP then he gets here and his ERA is 5 14 and WHIP is 1.333

It happens to them all.

Rodney was pretty good.  Rainey has been better here than he was in Cincinnati.  I seem to recall Doolittle being pretty good here over the last few years.

Will Smith would be a fantastic add if we can afford him.  Maybe in a perfect world Seth Romero arrives next year as a LHP.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #19: October 07, 2019, 12:29:11 PM »
at $6 MM net, you aren't going to find anyone more reliable either as a closer or as a set up guy. 
At 6 million I can't find a reliever to post a sub 5 ERA?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #20: October 07, 2019, 12:29:33 PM »
Rodney was pretty good.  Rainey has been better here than he was in Cincinnati.  I seem to recall Doolittle being pretty good here over the last few years.

Will Smith would be a fantastic add if we can afford him.  Maybe in a perfect world Seth Romero arrives next year as a LHP.
Yea, but Rizzo wants him to be a starter.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #21: October 07, 2019, 04:28:50 PM »
at $6 MM net, you aren't going to find anyone more reliable either as a closer or as a set up guy. 

If what we’re seeing now, I don’t think he is either at this point

Offline varoadking

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #22: October 07, 2019, 04:31:08 PM »
If what we’re seeing now, I don’t think he is either at this point

Agreed...I wouldn't be surprised to see the Nats decline his option.  Not sayin' that's the right move...just won't be surprised.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #23: October 07, 2019, 05:56:27 PM »
Maybe in a perfect world Seth Romero arrives next year as a LHP.

The guy who spent 2019 rehabbing TJ surgery and has only reached high-a?!?

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Bull Pen Construction for 2020
« Reply #24: October 07, 2019, 11:08:17 PM »
Don't forget maybe Matt Cronin, just comes up right away after May??