Author Topic: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat  (Read 510 times)

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Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #50: September 09, 2019, 03:03:08 PM »
They might be able to find two or three guys including a bullpen piece to replace the money they will not spend on Rendon. But it might be another version of Dozier, Gomes, Barraclough and Rosenthal.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #51: September 09, 2019, 03:12:08 PM »
Relying on homegrown to fill your roster is also the cheapest and the most cost-effective. In this situation, we're going to be spending money on the roster anyways, so might as well spend it on Rendon.

$23 million next year to Rendon or $23 million split between Jed Lowrie, Jonathan Schoop and Dellin Betances?
Rendon.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #52: September 09, 2019, 04:17:28 PM »
I'm not arguing that with you...not sure how we got here...I said I wanted him back...

It's because you can be SUCH a dick sometimes.;)

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #53: September 09, 2019, 04:21:52 PM »
My point was that we're spending that $30 million on the roster anyways so where is it better spent? 3-4 mediocre dudes at best or on a stud 3B?
The problem is we would need to fill 3 positions that would probably be more productive than the "stud" cumulatively.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #54: September 09, 2019, 04:22:48 PM »
The problem is we would need to fill 3 positions that would probably be more productive than the "stud" cumulatively.

I don't see 3 free agents out there who are all going to come in cheap and out-produce Rendon. Nor do I have any faith in this team signing the right cheap guys.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #55: September 09, 2019, 04:24:16 PM »
It's because you can be SUCH a dick sometimes.;)

Old man yelling at clouds, I guess...  :old:

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #56: September 09, 2019, 05:02:47 PM »
Who are the good teams that are signing their position players to long term, high dollar contracts into their mid thirties?  Not signing Harper and Rendon is all about not wanting to hamstring the baseball team 4-5 years from now, and the LAC arguments seem way off base.
It's not really a LAC argument.  I do think the team, at least since the RZ contract, will not sign one of their own developed guys early unless he signs at a discount to market.  I think Stras is the exceptional signing that proves the rule, especially if he opts out.   It's saved their butt with Desmond and with Zimmermann, and probably will end up a good move with Harper, too.  Would I rather they take some risk and lock down a Soto or a Robles (ship sailed on Turner) while they still had some pre-arb years left and use that risk to buy a couple of cheaper FA years? Yes, but I realize it takes players willing to do that trade off too. That said, if it were a coin flip, you'd think occasionally the coin would come up heads and we'd sign a few of these guys early.

However, I said this isn't a LAC argument.  What I think the argument is is that baseball fans are not day traders, indifferent to the inventory being held at any time.  If you want some emotional investment from fans, players they've seen develop and whose jerseys they've bought need to be retained occasionally when it makes sense to the team structure and the market.  Arenado is probably worth more to the Rockies than Rendon would be, no matter how similar they are statistically, because the Rockies fans have invested in Arenado.  Similarly, Donaldson on a 1 year deal might be worth close enough to Rendon to make some sense on the field as a short term patch, especially if Kieboom walks on water, but it will chafe on the "fan" and the loyalty aspect around here.  The countdown to Turner's departure is next, after Rendon leaves and Strasburg opts out.  Why bother to buy a season ticket or a jersey?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #57: September 09, 2019, 05:05:43 PM »
The problem is we would need to fill 3 positions that would probably be more productive than the "stud" cumulatively.
Lowrie's career high in WAR is 5
Schoop is maybe a 2 WAR player
Betances will want to close, so maybe 2 WAR.

I'd much rather have a monster bat at third

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #58: September 09, 2019, 05:20:02 PM »
Also, having players long-term helps establish franchise identity, consistency and culture, especially considering we rotate managers so frequently. Having cornerstone players matters because they are the ones who set the tone of the team every year from day one. When you continue to cycle players in on one-year deals with prospects you have to reinvent the clubhouse every year especially when our current manager is so hands-off.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #59: September 09, 2019, 05:29:55 PM »
our org's track record on non-obvious draft picks is sublime. basically batting like 2005 guzman.

Very true, but we're great for top five overall picks.

Letting Rendon walk tells the fans that any player they love will be gone soon, too, and that ownership has no interest in locking up homegrown players. Harper walking away had a million factors into it. Desmond & J-Zimm had their red flags, too. Rendon - not so much. Not easily replaceable, not a boom-or-bust bat, not a dividing factor in the organization. Great hitter, great defender, and our team is undoubtedly weaker - by a huge degree - next year and for years to come. At this point, letting him walk sends a clear message to fans that any player they develop will be gone as soon as they get long-term expensive. But don't worry - we'll use that cash savings to smartly spend on guys like Trevor Rosenthal!

Say goodbye to Soto in a few years, everyone. Hope we win a World Series by then!

No it doesn't, if the team makes a reasonable offer it sends the message that players will get a fair deal but won't be overpaid just because they were drafted here.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #60: September 09, 2019, 05:38:18 PM »
It's not really a LAC argument.  I do think the team, at least since the RZ contract, will not sign one of their own developed guys early unless he signs at a discount to market.  I think Stras is the exceptional signing that proves the rule, especially if he opts out.   It's saved their butt with Desmond and with Zimmermann, and probably will end up a good move with Harper, too.  Would I rather they take some risk and lock down a Soto or a Robles (ship sailed on Turner) while they still had some pre-arb years left and use that risk to buy a couple of cheaper FA years? Yes, but I realize it takes players willing to do that trade off too. That said, if it were a coin flip, you'd think occasionally the coin would come up heads and we'd sign a few of these guys early.

However, I said this isn't a LAC argument.  What I think the argument is is that baseball fans are not day traders, indifferent to the inventory being held at any time.  If you want some emotional investment from fans, players they've seen develop and whose jerseys they've bought need to be retained occasionally when it makes sense to the team structure and the market.  Arenado is probably worth more to the Rockies than Rendon would be, no matter how similar they are statistically, because the Rockies fans have invested in Arenado.  Similarly, Donaldson on a 1 year deal might be worth close enough to Rendon to make some sense on the field as a short term patch, especially if Kieboom walks on water, but it will chafe on the "fan" and the loyalty aspect around here.  The countdown to Turner's departure is next, after Rendon leaves and Strasburg opts out.  Why bother to buy a season ticket or a jersey?
Yeah, and Colorado has a .417 last place team with a 170 million payroll.   The big thing the more savvy GMs are figuring out these days is that it doesn't make sense to sign position players deep into the UFA years when they start declining almost near the beginning of a long contract.  Rizzo has shown he's willing to commit money to pitchers fairly long term.   The Dodgers, Cubs and even the Yankees are all shying away from locking in position players long term because they expect their teams to be good every year.   Some of those teams do have a bit better luck with the "Sign with us a short term if you want to keep being a Dodger/Yankee/etc and live in south Cali..." that we haven't really had so far.   Some position players and their agents have also wised up to the fact that the UFA market for them isn't what it used to be, and are willing to sign extensions to take the risk out of it.  Unfortunately Boras will fight with everything he has to try to keep that UFA market strong.  I don't think any of the Dodgers, Cubs or Yankees would extend Rendon for 8+ years.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Keep Anthony Rendon a Nat
« Reply #61: September 09, 2019, 05:40:04 PM »
The Yankees and Dodgers make it work because their player development is insanely good. They have lost like 3 rows of their depth chart to injuries this season and are going to win 100 games. Hell, Stanton and Judge have played like 10 games together and yet here they are. Dodgers replace anyone with a stud prospect. The Yankees didn't even need to pursue Machado and they lost Andujar and got even better production that expected. Their rotation has been dog crap but young guys like German have stepped in. Could we lose Max, Doolittle, Rendon, Soto and Robles for long stretches and still be in first? (no)

We've done it with Robles/Soto for Harper but the pipeline is bone dry. You're right about Boras pushing everyone to FA to try to maintain that market but I think the big spenders have done the smart thing and invested in development a ton and now don't even need to sign FAs. We don't have that luxury; our development is pretty bad, or at least nowhere near Dodgers/NYY level.