Ross & Fedde: The Other Ones

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Their performances the past several turns through the rotation have been very encouraging.  They have the stuff, so it's a matter of staying healthy and being consistent.  Joe has been a consistently good SP before, so hopefully he's back on track now.  We need them this year, and when Max returns we even will have an extra starter and some depth.

Down the road, it's a big help to have cheap younger guys like Ross and Fedde to fill in the back-end of the rotation versus signing vets like Sanchez.  If they finish strong, they might even be penciled in as #4 and #5 next year with Voth also adding depth and maybe a cheap vet like Hellickson brought in as well.

Edit - in honor of Grateful Dead night, I tweaked the thread title / Cory can change back if he'd like

[Section214]

Ross has looked electric his last few starts. Don't forget how good he was his first two seasons in the bigs. Both guys were first round picks and big time prospects and both are still very young. No reason to think they can't both be factored into the Nationals future both short-term and long-term.

[bluestreak]

If Ross continues to pitch like thishe he could be a 3rd starter on a lot of teams.

[spidernat]

If this keeps up when Scherzer returns who gets bounced from the rotation? Or do they consider a 6 man rotation for a couple of cycles to give Scherzer some time to get back in the groove and to give the other guys extra days rest for the stretch run?

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

If Ross continues to pitch like thishe he could be a 3rd starter on a lot of teams.

Yea, I feel a lot better about his upside than Fedde.  Fedde doesn't miss enough bats for my taste. 

I forgot Sanchez is signed for next year, which I'm fine with.  Hopefully Ross becomes the #4 and Sanchez gives a solid 125-150 innings with Fedde/Voth as depth.  That way we can spend all our attention on the bullpen.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

If this keeps up when Scherzer returns who gets bounced from the rotation? Or do they consider a 6 man rotation for a couple of cycles to give Scherzer some time to get back in the groove and to give the other guys extra days rest for the stretch run?

Ross over Fedde easily I think.  Fedde goes.

[Mathguy]

Not at all - Fedde could become a long reliever - or be any spot pitcher for the rest of the year - and he would love it

Ross over Fedde easily I think.  Fedde goes.

[Truconfidence]

MVP is Paul Menhart, both of them have said it was things from him that have helped them

[Slateman]

MVP is Paul Menhart, both of them have said it was things from him that have helped them

And everyone thought that was shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Scrapple]

Amazing turnarounds from both players. I had given up on Fedde for sure.

Just “maybe” the baseball gods don’t hate us after all. 

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

It's nice to see our own pitching prospects (knowing Ross was acquired via trade) contributing in a positive way. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Good article from Zuck about Ross' better conditioning and third pitch development http://www.masnsports.com/nationals-pastime/2017/07/with-extra-pitch-and-extra-stamina-ross-enjoying-a-resurgence.html

I wonder what sort of changes to his delivery, etc... they made his last time he was sent down before this stretch.  FP made the point that, even after you come back to pitch from TJ, it takes about another year  for the command to come back.  Perhaps that's it.  It would be fantastic if Ross and Fedde turn into reliable #4 starters.  It'd allow us to move Sanchez in the off-season to a hard-up-for-starters team and save some $$.

[bluestreak]

I wonder what sort of changes to his delivery, etc... they made his last time he was sent down before this stretch.  FP made the point that, even after you come back to pitch from TJ, it takes about another year  for the command to come back.  Perhaps that's it.  It would be fantastic if Ross and Fedde turn into reliable #4 starters.  It'd allow us to move Sanchez in the off-season to a hard-up-for-starters team and save some $$.

Or keep him and have actual pitching depth.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Or keep him and have actual pitching depth.

I don't know Fedde's option situation.  Maybe he gets used as a multi-inning reliever, but I'd think you'd want to keep both guys stretched out.

[spidernat]

Or keep him and have actual pitching depth.

precisely, I'd rather find ways to improve the team's performance than find ways to save money for the Lerners

[JCA-CrystalCity]

precisely, I'd rather find ways to improve the team's performance than find ways to save money for the Lerners

You know what a regular rotation piece can get in trade?  Where do stash and keep stretched out your 6th starter?  Both guys have used their 3 options, so neither can be sent down.  Do you make one of these guys a multi-inning reliever?  Then they can only do an abbreviated start or follow an opener if a starter goes down.  You have Crowe, you have McGowin, you have guys you can sign to fill in as the 7th starter.  It is just a waste of resources not to move a starting pitcher in the off-season if you have confidence in these two.  As you say, I'd rather find a way to improve the team.  That you can save money by moving the guy in his mid-30s is a nice bonus given the team's concern about tax thresholds and I hope for salary commitments to Rendon, Turner, etc...

[Slateman]

I don't know Fedde's option situation.  Maybe he gets used as a multi-inning reliever, but I'd think you'd want to keep both guys stretched out.

Fedde still has an option.

Or keep him and have actual pitching depth.

precisely, I'd rather find ways to improve the team's performance than find ways to save money for the Lerners

That money is the cost of a quality reliever. How much better would this team be if Ross and Fedde had pitched like this all season, and instead of Annibal Sanchez, we had signed Adam Ottavino?

[UMDNats]

I think JCA offers an interesting suggestion. We signed Anibal to a 2-year deal which, at his age, is questionable. But in year one, he's been really solid for us. 2.7 WAR, 122 ERA+ this year. If a starter-strapped team (the NYY come to mind, but Anibal to me is an NL guy now) has a decent prospect(s) (close to majors) to send our way (or an MLB player that we need - say a 1B), it's worth looking at. What can we expect from 36-year-old Anibal next year? Will he be able to replicate it, or be signifcantly better than Ross/Fedde? We could roll the dice on those two, move Anibal for a player we need somewhere else, and use the cash savings to sign a reliever or someone else.

I'm not sold on Fedde or Ross just yet. Ross looks better to me than Fedde; he's done it against better teams IMO and has better long-term stuff, plus a legit track record pre-injury. A 97 mph sinker/slider combo is great in the NL. Fedde looks like a great Chad Green type - some electric stuff in short stints and can be stretched to 3 innings as needed. I think there's a scenario where you move Anibal, make Fedde a 3-inning reliever/opener to keep him on the roster, and sign a cheaper option for our #4/5 starter who is a little more risky than Anibal.

[imref]

who would have guessed Ross would have the longest consecutive scoreless inning streak by any Nats starter this year?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I'll add I'm not sold on both Ross and Fedde just yet.  You can also assume one gets dropped from the rotation when Max is back.  However, if they both pitch well the final 1/4 of the season, then it opens up some interesting possibilities to upgrade the team.  Even if you don't think they will have unlimited money to spend (and I would not expect the Lerners ever to give Rizzo complete freedom from a budget; it's just not what they've ever done), a quality starter for one year would have a lot of suitors.  Sanchez would be one way to go for position player depth, or you could even use Fedde as a big chip in a package with Garcia, lets say, for an immediate-impact player. 

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

We saw in 2015 and 2016 that Ross can be a very solid back-end starter or even #3.  I like his stuff, he's past the TJ recovery now, and he's coming into his prime.  Obviously you want to see it consitently for more than 3 starts before annointing him, but I feel good about him joining Max, Stras, and Corbin next year. 

Fedde is showing some promise.  Same as Voth did.  I believe Fedde only gets 1 more start then is out of the rotation, and hopefully the Nats stay healthy and it stays that way.  I wouldn't hand Fedde or Voth the #5 job next season.  Not with Max getting older, Stras getting older and having a history of injuries, and with Ross yet to throw a full season as a starter.  You want multiple options to fill in as #4 and #5 guys, because they WILL be needed.  I like the Dodgers model of stockinpiling starters and using phantom IL trips to keep them all fresh.  Like anybody, if there is an overwhelming offer for Sanchez, take it.  But I wouldn't shop him.  I'd like him to be in the rotation and Fedde/Voth/etc be the guys who fill in as needed.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I like the Dodgers model of stockinpiling starters and using phantom IL trips to keep them all fresh.  Like anybody, if there is an overwhelming offer for Sanchez, take it.  But I wouldn't shop him.  I'd like him to be in the rotation and Fedde/Voth/etc be the guys who fill in as needed.

There's also Crowe, and then there's the ability to pick up a veteran who is not signed until late in the Spring who could step in to start.  So I think we are already about 7-8 pitchers deep as starters, not counting Hellickson who I might re-sign on a 2-way contract at about the same money.  Recognizing age and health of the top 3, if I were convinced about Fedde and Ross, then I'd still be willing to risk being caught a little short if it helps get  prospect depth in positions of need or an established upgrade at a position. 

Also, check Fedde's game logs.  It looks like to me he's been up and down in 2017, 2018, and 2019, which I think burns his options after 2019.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Unless Fedde makes several more starts this year and they are impressive, I just don't see him being that attractive of a trade chip.  He's not really a prospect anymore...he's 26.  He's had a very spotty track record.  I don't know what you would expect to receive in return more valuable than him as pitching depth.  Starting pitching depth is the hardest thing to acquire in baseball. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Cory - I tweaked the thread title. If you hate the Grateful Dead or otherwise want the original back, you can change it.  Nice topic.  We can add Voth when he's back in the mix.

[UMDNats]

I like the idea of Fedde and/or Voth as our multi-inning relievers next year. I don't think they can turn the lineup over but as openers/3-inning guys they could be really nice bridge arms to get to the back-end of the bullpen and plus they're cheap. Voth can hit upper-90s and has a killer curve which I think will play in short stints.