Author Topic: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread  (Read 1056 times)

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Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #25: August 11, 2019, 10:13:07 PM »
There cannot be a more heinous crime than the injection of reason into a "Fire X" thread.  Off the island with you  :P   
This seems like a big stretch blaming him for this one.  The stop sign came up in his way to third and he rolled it rounding the base not trying to stop. 

Offline twillia1

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #26: August 12, 2019, 06:55:25 AM »
I've been wondering since 2015 why this guy is unaccountable for his poor judgement.

https://www.ocregister.com/2016/10/13/not-werth-the-risk-bad-decisions-will-haunt-nationals/

Online bluestreak

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #27: August 12, 2019, 09:13:26 AM »
Eaton returned in 2018 from the knee injury and Henley sent him 1st to home and he injured his ankle at the plate.

Wasn’t it already injured? He had a cartilage flap that was missed on his previous injury or something. I think the guy is an idiot, but if you can’t round the bases without getting hurt, maybe you shouldn’t have been playing in the first place.

Online Slateman

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #28: August 12, 2019, 09:16:07 AM »
Wasn’t it already injured? He had a cartilage flap that was missed on his previous injury or something. I think the guy is an idiot, but if you can’t round the bases without getting hurt, maybe you shouldn’t have been playing in the first place.
Yes. In fact, that injury is what led them to discover it. Eaton would have likely played in pain for a while longer.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #29: August 12, 2019, 11:08:11 AM »
Soto can’t score from 1B on a double in the right field corner with two outs because he is getting TOO LARGE of a lead off the bag - dead stop lead. If you get too big a lead off the bag you’re NOT going to get a good jump because of your concerns of getting picked-off if the ball is not put in play.
Soto’s getting these large 13’-15’ leads but he’s leaning back to the bag with “two freaking outs”.
With two outs in that situation, Soto “should be” starting out with a short primary lead so he can gather momentum as he is moving into his secondary lead on the pitch. When done right, the runner doesn’t break his momentum going from his secondary lead to the ball being hit/put in play hence getting a good jump on a batted ball “with two outs”.
Of course you are asking a lot from the runner to have instincts for timing the pitch’s arrival to the plate and to know how far he can get out there yet not get picked off if the ball isn’t batted.
It’s very similar to approaching a car sitting at a traffic light that has just changed from red to green as you approach. If you’re moving and the other car has to accelerate from a dead stop you will still ZOOM right past them. 
I would much rather have my guys get an 11 foot secondary lead with momentum than have a dead stop 14 foot lead while leaning back to the base they’re coming from “with two outs”.
Soto and Robles have been doing this kind of crap all season long yet Mike Rizzo, his coaching staff, and instructors have not made any corrections. Hell, they probably don’t even know what to look for much less how to fix it.
Can’t consistently win the one run games if you’re not doing “the little things”.

Fire Rizzo!

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #30: August 12, 2019, 11:09:33 AM »
Soto can’t score from 1B on a double in the right field corner with two outs because he is getting TOO LARGE of a lead off the bag - dead stop lead. If you get too big a lead off the bag you’re NOT going to get a good jump because of your concerns of getting picked-off if the ball is not put in play.
Soto’s getting these large 13’-15’ leads but he’s leaning back to the bag with “two freaking outs”.
With two outs in that situation, Soto “should be” starting out with a short primary lead so he can gather momentum as he is moving into his secondary lead on the pitch. When done right, the runner doesn’t break his momentum going from his secondary lead to the ball being hit/put in play hence getting a good jump on a batted ball “with two outs”.
Of course you are asking a lot from the runner to have instincts for timing the pitch’s arrival to the plate and to know how far he can get out there yet not get picked off if the ball isn’t batted.
It’s very similar to approaching a car sitting at a traffic light that has just changed from red to green as you approach. If you’re moving and the other car has to accelerate from a dead stop you will still ZOOM right past them. 
I would much rather have my guys get an 11 foot secondary lead with momentum than have a dead stop 14 foot lead while leaning back to the base they’re coming from “with two outs”.
Soto and Robles have been doing this kind of crap all season long yet Mike Rizzo, his coaching staff, and instructors have not made any corrections. Hell, they probably don’t even know what to look for much less how to fix it.
Can’t consistently win the one run games if you’re not doing “the little things”.

Fire Rizzo!
Your posts are as digestible as your namesake.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #31: August 12, 2019, 11:16:19 AM »
Your posts are as digestible as your namesake.
He couldn’t score from 2nd base on a two out single, now he gets hurt because he can’t score on a two out double in the right field corner???? And that’s Henley’s fault? 

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #32: August 12, 2019, 11:17:48 AM »
He couldn’t score from 2nd base on a two out single, now he gets hurt because he can’t score on a two out double in the right field corner???? And that’s Henley’s fault?
Good point about the leads.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #33: August 12, 2019, 11:21:43 AM »
Mods, can we combine these threads?

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #34: August 12, 2019, 11:36:35 AM »
Good point about the leads.

But TL;dr

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #35: August 12, 2019, 11:37:59 AM »
Do we have any metrics that would evaluate Bob Henley's performance?

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #36: August 12, 2019, 11:45:02 AM »
Do we have any metrics that would evaluate Bob Henley's performance?
Mindfacts are as good as any!

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #37: August 12, 2019, 11:45:39 AM »
Mindfacts are as good as any!
I don't see a fangraphs entry for mindfacts . . .

Online bluestreak

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #38: August 12, 2019, 11:53:33 AM »
If we are looking at it objectively, I imagine the Henley is probably sending people the right amount. If you're not getting people thrown out, I imagine that you're leaving runs on the table. If a coach is cautious enough that no one is getting thrown out, then i bet he's holding people when they would have scored. 

He still pisses me off, but I realize I may be irrational on this. Get caught up in the pitchforks of this board...

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #39: August 12, 2019, 12:01:42 PM »
Your posts are as digestible as your namesake.



:lmao:

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #40: August 12, 2019, 12:40:33 PM »


:lmao:
Wow! Still under Slateman’s desk I see. You should come out from underneath there once in a while and get some fresh air.

 :hysterical:

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Fire Bob Henley!
« Reply #41: August 12, 2019, 02:18:24 PM »
But TL;dr
The gist of my comment was Soto is getting poor jumps on the bases with two outs because he is getting too big of a lead. When you get a huge lead like Soto you tend to lean back to the base because you are worried about getting picked-off. A big lead is not the answer to getting a good jump with two outs.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #42: August 12, 2019, 04:31:07 PM »
Windmill Them In: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
I think I searched for Henley.  Thanks.  Merged.

Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #43: August 13, 2019, 02:17:02 AM »
Easy to complain about Henley since most Nats fans only notice him when someone gets thrown out at the plate and that we scrutinize him without seeing how other 3B coaches around baseball on a nightly basis. I can imagine how Reds fans feel about their 3B coach after that horrendous sending of Votto on Robles' arm. I still think Henley is still one of the best out there and we shouldn't be picky if he's wrong 10% of the time.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #44: August 13, 2019, 09:11:03 AM »
Easy to complain about Henley since most Nats fans only notice him when someone gets thrown out at the plate and that we scrutinize him without seeing how other 3B coaches around baseball on a nightly basis. I can imagine how Reds fans feel about their 3B coach after that horrendous sending of Votto on Robles' arm. I still think Henley is still one of the best out there and we shouldn't be picky if he's wrong 10% of the time.
Most of Henley’s mistakes are with two outs so you have to take into consideration who is on deck when that bad send actually happened. Obviously if the pitcher or Gomes is in the on deck circle i too would be telling my runner before the pitch, “you better get a good jump because i’m not gonna stop you”!!!

I coached third-base for several years and here are some of the key factors you must know before sending a runner;
1) the score.
2) how many outs there are.
3) who is in the on-deck circle and beyond.
4) knowing the arm strength of your opponents outfielders.
5) not getting any key players hurt on close plays at the plate.
6) knowing your runners don’t normally get good jumps on low line-drives through the infield with less than two outs.  They would have to freeze and see the ball through first.
7) knowing your runners should get a good jump on ground-balls through the right side of the infield regardless of how many outs there are.
9) wet conditions.
I’m sure I missed a few.

You are correct, that was a bad send by the Reds 3B Coach last night getting Votto thrown out by a mile with just one out while hitting in the meat of their lineup.
For me, unless we are down by several runs, I could careless if Henley gets one of our runners thrown out at the plate when there are two outs and Gomes or the pitcher are in the on-deck circle. It would  certainly be worth the risk. If he does get thrown out, blame it on the runner for not getting a good jump with two outs.

Coaching 3B is a thankless job and there is so much more to it than simply STOP or GO.





Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #45: August 13, 2019, 10:59:43 AM »
Most of Henley’s mistakes are with two outs so you have to take into consideration who is on deck when that bad send actually happened. Obviously if the pitcher or Gomes is in the on deck circle i too would be telling my runner before the pitch, “you better get a good jump because i’m not gonna stop you”!!!

I coached third-base for several years and here are some of the key factors you must know before sending a runner;
1) the score.
2) how many outs there are.
3) who is in the on-deck circle and beyond.
4) knowing the arm strength of your opponents outfielders.
5) not getting any key players hurt on close plays at the plate.
6) knowing your runners don’t normally get good jumps on low line-drives through the infield with less than two outs.  They would have to freeze and see the ball through first.
7) knowing your runners should get a good jump on ground-balls through the right side of the infield regardless of how many outs there are.
9) wet conditions.
I’m sure I missed a few.

You are correct, that was a bad send by the Reds 3B Coach last night getting Votto thrown out by a mile with just one out while hitting in the meat of their lineup.
For me, unless we are down by several runs, I could careless if Henley gets one of our runners thrown out at the plate when there are two outs and Gomes or the pitcher are in the on-deck circle. It would  certainly be worth the risk. If he does get thrown out, blame it on the runner for not getting a good jump with two outs.

Coaching 3B is a thankless job and there is so much more to it than simply STOP or GO.





Really, with 2 outs, even if it is Soto or Rendon at the plate, don't you send the runner if there's a a bit less than a 50/50 chance of him being safe?  I mean, Soto and Rendon are very productive in that situation relative to other hitters, but very productive is probably in the .350 - .400 range.

Online UMDNats

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #46: August 13, 2019, 11:01:45 AM »
Easy to complain about Henley since most Nats fans only notice him when someone gets thrown out at the plate and that we scrutinize him without seeing how other 3B coaches around baseball on a nightly basis. I can imagine how Reds fans feel about their 3B coach after that horrendous sending of Votto on Robles' arm. I still think Henley is still one of the best out there and we shouldn't be picky if he's wrong 10% of the time.

On sunday he sent soto around 3rd in the first inning and the only reason he was safe was because ramos dropped the ball. guy is a clown and has horrible judgment. he's gotten real lucky on a number of sends recently and has, at this point, had a major negative effect on a number of games in a crucial stretch. of course he's right more than he's wrong and we don't notice that but when this guy has made boneheaded calls in crucial games routinely i have little to no faith in him as a 3B coach in a playoff game.

when we lose by 1 in the wild card game and SENDLEY sends adams and he gets thrown out, we should focus on the times he was right!

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #47: August 13, 2019, 12:26:58 PM »
Really, with 2 outs, even if it is Soto or Rendon at the plate, don't you send the runner if there's a a bit less than a 50/50 chance of him being safe?  I mean, Soto and Rendon are very productive in that situation relative to other hitters, but very productive is probably in the .350 - .400 range.
I would need to know the score, the inning, the runner, who is throwing the ball, and is my team so desperate it is worthy of risking injury to my runner getting hurt at the plate.
However, under normal circumstances, if you have determined you have a 50/50 chance of scoring by sending the runner, by all means wave his ass home!!! 50% is certainly better than 30% even where I come from.  :lol:
But understand, if you are down by several runs it can sometimes be asinine to send the runner even if he has a 95% chance of scoring. If you get my runner thrown out on the bases before the tying run comes to the plate I would have to fire your ass!  :crackup:

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #48: August 13, 2019, 01:22:17 PM »
But understand, if you are down by several runs it can sometimes be asinine to send the runner even if he has a 95% chance of scoring. If you get my runner thrown out on the bases before the tying run comes to the plate I would have to fire your ass!  :crackup:
I think this is where Sendley gets the most grief.  WTF was he running when the run didn't mean that much and conserving the out matters more.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Windmill them in: The Fire Bob Sendley Thread
« Reply #49: August 13, 2019, 01:55:58 PM »
On sunday he sent soto around 3rd in the first inning and the only reason he was safe was because ramos dropped the ball. guy is a clown and has horrible judgment. he's gotten real lucky on a number of sends recently and has, at this point, had a major negative effect on a number of games in a crucial stretch. of course he's right more than he's wrong and we don't notice that but when this guy has made boneheaded calls in crucial games routinely i have little to no faith in him as a 3B coach in a playoff game.

when we lose by 1 in the wild card game and SENDLEY sends adams and he gets thrown out, we should focus on the times he was right!
I remember the play but I don’t remember the situation. It raised my eyebrow also.

Not here to defend Henley but let’s say you are the 3B coach and you have also predetermined before the play to send/score Soto from second base on a base hit because he should get a great jump by “going on contact” with two outs. Then the actual play begins with a base hit so you begin to look for Soto to wave him home but quickly notice he got a horses ass jump with two fn outs?!?? Now what??? Send? Don’t send? Now you have to make a quick decision after you predetermined to send-send-send!!! Or is it now send-send-STOP!!! It’s a tough spot to be in - been there done that.

Again, not defending Henley, but our guys sure could make his job a whole helluva lot easier by getting good jumps/breaks on the bases especially with two outs. There is NO EXCUSE for it.