Author Topic: 2019 Bullpen (Read 59118 times)

spidernat · « **Reply #1250:** August 18, 2019, 12:41:00 PM »

same people who nag about "dry humping" relievers

sixthree175 · « **Reply #1251:** August 18, 2019, 12:47:33 PM »

Quote from: spidernat on August 18, 2019, 12:41:00 PM

same people who nag about "dry humping" relievers

Only out of necessity

spidernat · « **Reply #1252:** August 18, 2019, 12:51:38 PM »

This reminds me of when people wanted Rosenthal pulled after one batter. When that becomes the case that player should not be on your roster.

sixthree175 · « **Reply #1253:** August 18, 2019, 12:58:29 PM »

Quote from: spidernat on August 18, 2019, 12:51:38 PM

This reminds me of when people wanted Rosenthal pulled after one batter. When that becomes the case that player should not be on your roster.

Next year, theoretically this will be a moot point with the three batter minimum (assuming they're able to enforce it).

mitlen · « **Reply #1254:** August 18, 2019, 12:59:54 PM »

Quote from: sixthree175 on August 18, 2019, 12:58:29 PM

Next year, theoretically this will be a moot point with the three batter minimum (assuming they're able to enforce it).

That rule would have worked for Doo last night.

hotshot · « **Reply #1255:** August 18, 2019, 01:21:11 PM »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on August 18, 2019, 11:44:19 AM

For the record here are the appearances leaders.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/mlb/getleaders.asp?rank=305

Read elsewhere Doolittle is the 29th most-used reliever in the NL.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #1256:** August 18, 2019, 03:13:41 PM »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on August 18, 2019, 11:44:19 AM

For the record here are the appearances leaders.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/mlb/getleaders.asp?rank=305

by that chart, I don't think any of the guys with more appearances are closers.

bluestreak · « **Reply #1257:** August 18, 2019, 03:25:28 PM »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on August 18, 2019, 03:13:41 PM

by that chart, I don't think any of the guys with more appearances are closers.

Another thing you’ll notice is that none of them are particularly good either.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #1258:** August 18, 2019, 03:48:42 PM »

Quote from: bluestreak on August 18, 2019, 03:25:28 PM

Another thing you’ll notice is that none of them are particularly good either.

see the Doo thread and look at this chart:
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=5,d

Out of the top 20 save guys going into today, Doo had the 2d most appearances (540, next to Luke jackson, and was 6th in IP, only 5 innings less than to top guy (Jackson). You can't tell me that isn' a lot of use relative to other major closers as well as relative to his past use.

Irrefutable · « **Reply #1259:** August 18, 2019, 05:22:09 PM »

Quote from: spidernat on August 18, 2019, 09:37:39 AM

So after 4 pitches someone should've been warmed up and been able to come in! This is freaking retarded.

Doolittle said he was fine and available. He can't have it both ways.

Yes someone should have been warmed up. Doolittle had struggled his previous few games, so waiting for the freaking trainwreck was retarded.

bluestreak · « **Reply #1260:** August 18, 2019, 05:59:07 PM »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on August 18, 2019, 03:48:42 PM

see the Doo thread and look at this chart:
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=5,d

Out of the top 20 save guys going into today, Doo had the 2d most appearances (540, next to Luke jackson, and was 6th in IP, only 5 innings less than to top guy (Jackson). You can't tell me that isn' a lot of use relative to other major closers as well as relative to his past use.

I was agreeing with you. He’s pitched a lot for an elite reliever.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #1261:** August 18, 2019, 06:02:44 PM »

Quote from: bluestreak on August 18, 2019, 05:59:07 PM

I was agreeing with you. He’s pitched a lot for an elite reliever.

hope you were not agreeing with the 540 IP

Iwas just giving more backup

hotshot · « **Reply #1262:** August 18, 2019, 08:08:33 PM »

Well, think we've seen enough of McGowin's act. Next guy up, please!

awbb · « **Reply #1263:** August 19, 2019, 08:49:56 AM »

Dave looked like he was chewing wasps in the dugout when

was on the mound yesterday. Pretty sure he was f-bombing under his breath. I don't think I've ever seen him look so pissed.

I kinda liked it.

UMDNats · « **Reply #1264:** August 19, 2019, 08:53:35 AM »

Quote from: hotshot on August 18, 2019, 08:08:33 PM

Well, think we've seen enough of McGowin's act. Next guy up, please!

The guy has been up a ton of times to basically pitch the end of blowouts and without fail he gets rocked. Kind of hilarious.

Slateman · « **Reply #1265:** August 19, 2019, 08:54:39 AM »

Quote from: awbb on August 19, 2019, 08:49:56 AM

Dave looked like he was chewing wasps in the dugout when was on the mound yesterday. Pretty sure he was f-bombing under his breath. I don't think I've ever seen him look so pissed.

I kinda liked it.

That's how he looked when Kelley was a freakup in the blow out.

imref · « **Reply #1266:** August 19, 2019, 09:17:45 AM »

Holland has thrown 2 innings at Harrisburg, one hit allowed, one walk, one strikeout.

djbaseball13 · « **Reply #1267:** August 19, 2019, 04:17:48 PM »

Did you guys read the article by Boster Olney about managing pitchers & pitch counts? He basically says (much more clearly than I do) what I have been trying to say. The "conventional wisdom" that managers use these days is flawed. Teams that pull a pitcher early are (obviously) going to have to use the bullpen more. These moves are back-firing as indicated by hard stats (included in the article)
The worst part is when a pitcher is mowing down opponents, and is taken out after 80 piches; and then the bullpen blows the game.
Nats fans may remember when Jordan Zimmerman threw a GREAT game in playoffs, and was taken out after a walk in the 8th (or 9th?) inning. Bullpen blew that game, and the rest is history.
And, I agree with you guys that we should have had pitchers warming up for Doolittle in the 14 inning disaster.
Same thing when Storen blew the playoff game vs cardinals.
So, the conventional wisdom says to pull your starter (no matter how good he is pitching) -- but leave your closer in (no matter how bad he is pitching) !

Elvir Ovcina · « **Reply #1268:** August 19, 2019, 04:52:09 PM »

Quote from: djbaseball13 on August 19, 2019, 04:17:48 PM

Did you guys read the article by Boster Olney about managing pitchers & pitch counts? He basically says (much more clearly than I do) what I have been trying to say. The "conventional wisdom" that managers use these days is flawed. Teams that pull a pitcher early are (obviously) going to have to use the bullpen more. These moves are back-firing as indicated by hard stats (included in the article)
The worst part is when a pitcher is mowing down opponents, and is taken out after 80 piches; and then the bullpen blows the game.
Nats fans may remember when Jordan Zimmerman threw a GREAT game in playoffs, and was taken out after a walk in the 8th (or 9th?) inning. Bullpen blew that game, and the rest is history.
And, I agree with you guys that we should have had pitchers warming up for Doolittle in the 14 inning disaster.
Same thing when Storen blew the playoff game vs cardinals.
So, the conventional wisdom says to pull your starter (no matter how good he is pitching) -- but leave your closer in (no matter how bad he is pitching) !

Ninth. With 2 outs. That's the game against the Giants that went 18. And that was his first walk, with like 3 hits, and if I remember correctly he wasn't even over 100.

But be careful about extrapolating the decision-making of aggressively moronic managers like Matt Williams and Dave Martinez as "conventional wisdom."