Author Topic: Major Rule Changes being considered  (Read 4352 times)

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Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #25: February 06, 2019, 02:09:37 PM »
Interesting that you don't mind the extra innings proposal.  That's the one I dislike the most. That, to my mind, would make baseball much less unique. It's not a clock, but...
Yeah, I've seen it in a few other settings and it's great. I'd also add the caveat that I'd have it for the regular season only.

Offline nfotiu

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  • Juan Soto aka Human Wildcat
Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #26: February 06, 2019, 02:20:14 PM »
Yeah, I've seen it in a few other settings and it's great. I'd also add the caveat that I'd have it for the regular season only.
Why can't they just end regular season games in a tie after 10?   

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #27: February 06, 2019, 02:30:48 PM »
3 batter minimum for a pitcher is a terrible rule that will fundamentally alter the game's strategy. Just say no.


Yeah, taking away a manager's ability to substitute is ridiculous. If you want to put a timed limit on pitching changes (which means teams will have to do their warmups a lot quicker and warm up more than one pitcher at a time), that at least carries a whiff of sensibility, if the object is not letting things grind to a halt in the late innings.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #28: February 06, 2019, 02:32:52 PM »
Why can't they just end regular season games in a tie after 10?   

Gross.  Extra innings makes baseball, baseball. 

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #29: February 06, 2019, 02:34:07 PM »
Yeah, taking away a manager's ability to substitute is ridiculous.
Isn't a manager's ability to substitute limited in every sport, in different ways?

In baseball you can't reinsert a pitcher or position player who has been taken out of the lineup, for example.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #30: February 06, 2019, 02:34:46 PM »
Maybe, but still, I think it fundamentally alters the game, and not in a good way.   I like seeing Scherzer at bat.

IIRC Scherzer made a statement in his first year here that he doesn't like pitchers hitting or something to that effect. He then turns out to be our best hitting pitcher since Livian.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #31: February 06, 2019, 02:39:05 PM »
Sure, but the obvious counterargument is that the answer is to eliminate the DH everywhere.  I'd far prefer that.   I think it should matter whether your pitchers can hit or not.  I mean, why don't we suddenly start DHing for catchers?  Most of them aren't good hitters either. 

Over-specialization is part of what made football tedious and unwatchable and it's doing the same to baseball.

I don't think pitchers focusing and building their careers on pitching at an elite level and hitters having the same focus on hitting equates to overspecialization that's to the detriment of the sport. The parade of relievers comes closer to the tedium factor, and I think putting a timer on pitching substitutions may be an idea worth kicking around.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #32: February 06, 2019, 02:40:49 PM »

I'd be most receptive to them keeping the concession stands open until the game is over...

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #33: February 06, 2019, 02:43:44 PM »
I'd be most receptive to them keeping the concession stands open until the game is over...

Ben's deserves a lifetime achievement award for the number of times they've been the last one standing, especially when there's been a rain delay

Online bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #34: February 06, 2019, 02:45:45 PM »
In baseball, there was a time when you needed 7 balls for a walk, when the pitchers pitched underhanded and when the batter could call for a high or low ball before the pitch. You could also get a guy out of you caught the ball on one bounce.

I’m not sure why I’m posting this, just seemed like the thing to do.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #35: February 06, 2019, 02:55:49 PM »
Why can't they just end regular season games in a tie after 10?   
Because there's no tying in baseball...I don't want ties, but I like mixing it up a little bit in extra innings.

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #36: February 06, 2019, 02:59:31 PM »
the runner on 2B starting in the 10th isn't a bad idea.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #37: February 06, 2019, 03:54:59 PM »
Isn't a manager's ability to substitute limited in every sport, in different ways?

In baseball you can't reinsert a pitcher or position player who has been taken out of the lineup, for example.

But you can put someone different in, if not a someone who'd already been in the game. You're largely not required to have Player X for subsequent plays in if he's melting down.
 
You don't usually hear this exchange in the stands:
"Get that guy outta there!"
"He can't until two more batters..."

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #38: February 06, 2019, 04:07:18 PM »
But you can put someone different in, if not a someone who'd already been in the game. You're largely not required to have Player X for subsequent plays in if he's melting down.
 
You don't usually hear this exchange in the stands:
"Get that guy outta there!"
"He can't until two more batters..."

I'm guessing pitchers would have to learn how to fake injuries when melting down

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 3279
Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #39: February 06, 2019, 04:13:31 PM »
I don't think pitchers focusing and building their careers on pitching at an elite level and hitters having the same focus on hitting equates to overspecialization that's to the detriment of the sport. The parade of relievers comes closer to the tedium factor, and I think putting a timer on pitching substitutions may be an idea worth kicking around.

Then why have any overlap between offense and defense at all?  You could make it just like the NFL.  Nine DHs.  Ick.  Baseball is a sport in which the decision of who to play at every single position has a tradeoff between offensive skill and defensive skill...except for the DH and pitchers in the AL.  Eliminate the problem rather than expanding it.

Man, a LOOGY mass extinction like the dodo bird or passenger pigeon.

It would not be a moment too soon. 

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #40: February 06, 2019, 04:16:05 PM »
But you can put someone different in, if not a someone who'd already been in the game. You're largely not required to have Player X for subsequent plays in if he's melting down.
 
You don't usually hear this exchange in the stands:
"Get that guy outta there!"
"He can't until two more batters..."

Right, which is why it would be a change. I'm just pointing out that baseball isn't exactly a world of free substitutions. Maybe the only major sport with more strict subtitutions is soccer?

Offline nfotiu

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  • Juan Soto aka Human Wildcat
Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #41: February 06, 2019, 04:23:11 PM »
I wonder if the rules would allow for putting a lefty pitcher in left field a righty on the mound, and have them swap positions back forth as necessary.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #42: February 06, 2019, 04:44:27 PM »
Sure, but the obvious counterargument is that the answer is to eliminate the DH everywhere.  I'd far prefer that.   I think it should matter whether your pitchers can hit or not.  I mean, why don't we suddenly start DHing for catchers?  Most of them aren't good hitters either. 

For the same reason, I favor the minimum batters for pitchers and 12-pitcher roster limit.  I'd prefer to keep it at 25, but I see the need to appease the union and there might be some quality benefit. 

Over-specialization is part of what made football tedious and unwatchable and it's doing the same to baseball.  By that I mean "too freaking many relief pitchers" and "the DH."

I’m not sure that it’s that “obvious” that the entire baseball world should change to fit the 15 teams in the National league.
Because all the schools and lower leagues have gone to the DH, you are being selected to be a pitcher based solely on your ability to pitch. Ability to hit is meaningless. So then the first time you’re regularly batting it’s agajnst majors league pitching? It’s a set up for failure and it’s not what I expect out of professional sports.

The best two pitchers at hitting over the past decade have been MadBum and Greinke.  They have wRC+ of 51 and 54 respectively. All of the hype about Max last year? WRC+ 47. The same as Chris Davis, who was the worst regular hitter in baseball last year.


Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #43: February 06, 2019, 04:44:37 PM »
I wonder if the rules would allow for putting a lefty pitcher in left field a righty on the mound, and have them swap positions back forth as necessary.

If not, they should.  If you can change pitchers without substituting, I don't see a reason to prohibit it - assuming no warm-up tosses each time.

I’m not sure that it’s that “obvious” that the entire baseball world should change to fit the 15 teams in the National league.
Because all the schools and lower leagues have gone to the DH, you are being selected to be a pitcher based solely on your ability to pitch. Ability to hit is meaningless. So then the first time you’re regularly batting it’s agajnst majors league pitching? It’s a set up for failure and it’s not what I expect out of professional sports.

The best two pitchers at hitting over the past decade have been MadBum and Greinke.  They have wRC+ of 51 and 54 respectively. All of the hype about Max last year? WRC+ 47. The same as Chris Davis, who was the worst regular hitter in baseball last year.

Why should the entire world have changed to fit what were then 12 teams in the American League?  I'm not of the school that "because that's how everyone's been doing it for X years" is really a valid argument.   That's a major cause of pitchers becoming more and more laughable as hitters.   And I don't even mind the ones who can't, just like I respect the tradeoff inherent in putting Matt Adams in left field.  I don't believe you should get a free hitter who can't play the field, nor should you escape the penalty for having a pitcher who can't hit occupying a lineup spot for 6+ innings.  If you suck at something that is integral to the game, you deserve to have it exposed.   

And it's not about how objectively good or bad you are, it's about your marginal benefit or detriment over the alternatives.   I wasn't being entirely rhetorical when I asked above why there should not be an additional DH for catchers.  Sure, they suck at hitting less than pitchers, but it's also a unique skill set that few players fill, and most of the ones who do can't hit.  Why allow the DH for pitchers and not catchers, then, save for the arbitrary line in the sand saying that catchers as a group are acceptably bad hitters and pitchers aren't?

Offline dracnal

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #44: February 06, 2019, 05:06:51 PM »
If not, they should.  If you can change pitchers without substituting, I don't see a reason to prohibit it - assuming no warm-up tosses each time.

You can move a pitcher to say, left field, from the mound, bring in a new pitcher, have him face a guy, then pull him and move the left fielder back to the mound, so I'm sure the current rules would let you swap them back and forth. At that point it's probably a question of is it bad on the arm to go hot, warm, hot, warm, that often? I don't really know the mechanics of it but I have to think there's a reason it isn't done...

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #45: February 06, 2019, 05:21:01 PM »
You can move a pitcher to say, left field, from the mound, bring in a new pitcher, have him face a guy, then pull him and move the left fielder back to the mound, so I'm sure the current rules would let you swap them back and forth. At that point it's probably a question of is it bad on the arm to go hot, warm, hot, warm, that often? I don't really know the mechanics of it but I have to think there's a reason it isn't done...

Yeah, but it's not the current rules that are at issue.  It's not done much primarily because it (a) involves removing a position player from the game and replacing him with a pitcher in the outfield and then (b) having to swap another position player in after.  It wastes a sub most of the time unless you have two guys who are both credible pitchers and credible outfielders.

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #46: February 06, 2019, 05:21:31 PM »
You can move a pitcher to say, left field, from the mound, bring in a new pitcher, have him face a guy, then pull him and move the left fielder back to the mound, so I'm sure the current rules would let you swap them back and forth. At that point it's probably a question of is it bad on the arm to go hot, warm, hot, warm, that often? I don't really know the mechanics of it but I have to think there's a reason it isn't done...

Could we use the bullpen cart to ferry folks from the OF to the mound?  That would speed the game up quite a bit. :)

Offline nfotiu

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  • Juan Soto aka Human Wildcat
Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #47: February 06, 2019, 05:26:28 PM »
It was done at least a couple times last year.  Once against us.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #48: February 06, 2019, 05:31:38 PM »
It was done at least a couple times last year.  Once against us.

I remember Andrew Cashner playing LF at Nats Park once back in the day as well. 

Edit: Here it is - https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/WAS/WAS201404240.shtml

Offline Bloo

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #49: February 06, 2019, 05:33:14 PM »
I'm all for speeding up the game, but a pitch clock seems a bit invasive and doesn't really fit the culture of baseball. I think the commisioner should just encourage pitchers to take less time and have the umpires facilitate.