I, For One, Welcome Our New CF Overlord (The Robles Thread)

[English Natsie]

I doubt that Davey will say anything about why Robles has crumbled since then. He says nothing negative about a player. See Davey's comment in the Robles thread..."I run him out there every day...tell him he's good...he has so much talent...an electric ballplayer...we have to get him going..."

Now there's an idea - perhaps we could adopt the Martinez approach for WNFF?    WNFF members are all intelligent, thoughtful, sensitive individuals...would never engage in petty disputes, pointless arguments...always ready to accept the other's point of view, with insightful, thoughtful comment...would not think about denigration, personal insult, strong language... always ready with a friendly word for opposing teams...would never engage in any form of criticism of Nats players, due to concern about their feelings...

You know what - it might just work! 

[welch]

Not clear why you are hung up on Davey not saying negative things? Do you think that would help Victor?  Did he say negative things about Bell at the start of the season when he was hitting .100?  It’s his style for better or worse. Has nothing to do with any decisions they make.

Not at all. Hotshot asked what Davey or Kevin Long might think about Robles's evaporation of power and as a hitter in general. My point is that we won't hear an honest evaluation. Davey will continue to say "We need to get him going". Managers never criticize a player. Of course, what Davey and the coaches say to Rizzo will be different.

The organization might "say" more when Robles comes up for arbitration.

[welch]

Now there's an idea - perhaps we could adopt the Martinez approach for WNFF?    WNFF members are all intelligent, thoughtful, sensitive individuals...would never engage in petty disputes, pointless arguments...always ready to accept the other's point of view, with insightful, thoughtful comment...would not think about denigration, personal insult, strong language... always ready with a friendly word for opposing teams...would never engage in any form of criticism of Nats players, due to concern about their feelings...

You know what - it might just work! 

Ha!!

[welch]

Going to cost more to get even a decent hitter. Look at what Jackie Bradley Junior got from Milwaukee and then look at his stats. 

That doesn't mean Robles deserves one of the four or five bench spots next year. And unless Robles starts, when will he get enough at-bats to learn to hit or to demonstrate that he has "blossomed"?

[Natsinpwc]

That doesn't mean Robles deserves one of the four or five bench spots next year. And unless Robles starts, when will he get enough at-bats to learn to hit or to demonstrate that he has "blossomed"?

You are in denial. He is the starter next year.

[Mattionals]

Can we move the Robles discussion to the Robles thread? I know we all want to link the two considering they are both getting playing time now, but there is way more talk about Robles than Thomas and having two threads gets confusing.

[Natsinpwc]

Can we move the Robles discussion to the Robles thread? I know we all want to link the two considering they are both getting playing time now, but there is way more talk about Robles than Thomas and having two threads gets confusing.

Makes sense. In any event it’s just a rehash of the same stuff.  Let’s see what happens in 2022.

[Mattionals]

Welch, you gotta understand how AAA works now a days and also the actual spot the big league team is in.

AAA is a mix up of junk baller guys who can't crack an everyday MLB roster (useful for injuries when needed on the big league club but are replacement level or below, we call these guys organizational depth pieces) and a FEW top pitchers and hitters. For many years, AA has been where you see actual development, and AAA can be seen as more of "get a prospect ready by seeing failed/fringe MLB guys versus them seeing other "green" prospects" type of place.

That being said, the Nats are not contending, and there really isn't any reason to send Robles down. He isn't clogging up a roster spot and sitting on the bench. There isn't another guy pushing him off his roster spot. The best thing is to see if he can learn at the MLB level to fix his mistakes. Others have mentioned once he hits arbitration, he isn't going to break the bank, but he also will make more than I think any team is really comfortable paying him to sit in AAA. If this team was contending, sure, send him to AAA to make mechanical changes and roll with Thomas everyday. That isn't where the team is now, and Robles is going to get his chances to show he can figure it out and put all his tools together.

I know you don't like his play Welch, but this is just the way things are. Big league club can tolerate his lousy play because the other guy is probably only a bit better than him right now. Robles isn't a completely lost cause yet, so you give him time especially while the rest of the team has it's warts. I do believe he has less rope than the other young position players though, as he is about to hit arbitration and would need to show that he can break out of whatever this funk is and start producing. He looks really lost out there, and I'm fairly certain that we all are looking at a guy who is mentally struggling. I'm on the fence at this point in his development that if the FO moved him in the offseason, I wouldn't be completely flabbergasted like I would have been months ago. This FO soured on Giolito, and I could see them souring on Robles. I honestly wonder if the FO is interested in bringing up Donovan Casey to compete as well. At this point, I would say we've got three guys who could compete for CF, none of which are ideal.

Casey - Loud bat, Lots of whiffs, great arm, good speed
Thomas - Below average bat, below average power, good speed, good arm, good defense
Robles - Right now completely lost looking, but overall has the highest ceiling of them all

[Smithian]

And Robles is now in Rochester.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

And Robles is now in Rochester.

Congrats to Welch on this call.

This makes sense, tbh.  I thought tonight they'd go with Robles in CF and Thomas in LF vs. Moore, but this is a vote of confidence in both Thomas and Yadi.  Yadi deserves to play every day at this point, and Davey clearly, probably deservedly, has more confidence in Thomas right now.  If you are looking for a guy to ride the bench as a 4th outfielder, pinch hit, and occasionally spell a righty in CF, then you are better off with the guy who looks like a 4th outfielder, pinch hits well, and bats lefty.  Meanwhile, this may serve as a wake up call for Robles, who will play every day. 

[UMDNats]

Gotta think Robles goes down to AAA and pouts for the next month.

[imref]

And Robles is now in Rochester.

Time to reopen The Farm thread.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Time to reopen The Farm thread.

follow the no longer a prospect?

[Mattionals]

I tip my hat to Welch. I was wrong and figured they wouldn't send him down. Good sticking to your guns sir!

[varoadking]

He gone...see ya, Robust...

[hotshot]

Gotta think Robles goes down to AAA and pouts for the next month.

That was the first thing that came to my mind. Any positive development that occurs at Rochester (do they have a better hitting coach?) might well be swept away by a negative effect on his attitude and already shaken confidence. He may be one of those players that it they eventually find success, may find it with another franchise.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

That was the first thing that came to my mind. Any positive development that occurs at Rochester (do they have a better hitting coach?) might well be swept away by a negative effect on his attitude and already shaken confidence. He may be one of those players that it they eventually find success, may find it with another franchise.

Carlos Gomez. 

[welch]

Here's where I hope that Robles settles down, hits against the veteran crafty lefty/righty pitchers in AAA, and comes back in Spring Training.

[Mattionals]

Carlos Gomez.

I used Gomez as a parallel before and I shudder to think it could come to that. Hopefully if Robles follows that path, I hope he cat he's on with a team far away from the NL East.

[welch]

Maybe Robles does OK without big crowds watching every game.

[Mattionals]

Maybe Robles does OK without big crowds watching every game.

There were no crowds last year and this year the Nats threw in the towel a month ago. No clue what is going on but if it's pressure he is doing it to himself at this point.

[catocony]

I think he's just a complete meathead who has never really learned how to play fundamental baseball.  That said, he's still young and has time to turn things around.

[welch]

From the Athletic, sing pretty much what others have said: Robles has the talent; he needs to work on things without MLB pressure; he could be great.

By Maria Torres Sep 1, 2021 13
For the better part of two years, this question has followed Victor Robles: Can the former top prospect, who won the World Series in his first full MLB season with the Nationals, do enough to justify keeping a roster spot as his numbers on offense dip to unfathomable lows?

On Tuesday afternoon, a couple of hours before they faced the Phillies — a 12-6 loss — the Nationals determined Robles could not. His batting average had dropped to .203 and his on-base percentage to .310 with a pinch hit groundout on the first pitch he saw a night earlier. That he was coming off the bench was a sign, too. Robles had lost most of his playing time to newcomer Lane Thomas, the outfielder acquired from the Cardinals in the Nationals’ trade of Jon Lester.

Rather than allow Robles to resume his starting role in center field and move Thomas to the left-field spot occupied almost exclusively by Yadiel Hernandez, the Nationals decided to demote Robles to Triple-A Rochester. They believe giving him time and space to work on his swing in the minor leagues is better than playing him every day at the major-league level, where the pressure of boosting his ghastly numbers could create the opposite outcome.

“I really think his future still here is bright,” manager Dave Martinez said. “We want him back here. If he’s playing center field the way he’s capable of playing, we’re gonna do good things. It’s an opportunity for him to go down there, not worry about numbers, per se, but just go down there and start making hard contact every at-bat, taking his walks, hitting pitches in the strike zone hard, not missing them, running bases well, playing good defense. All that stuff. He gets to go down there and relax and not worry about a whole lot.”

Nationals executives have said for years that Robles is too talented to let go. They often cited his Gold Glove-caliber defense and elite speed. His 2019 campaign, in which he batted .255 with 17 homers and 33 doubles on the way to nine hits in the Nationals’ World Series run, bolstered their hypothesis that he could be a good enough major-league hitter to stick.

But Robles took a few steps back in 2020. Looking for home run power, he packed muscle onto his 6-foot, 195-pound frame. The extra weight slowed him on the basepaths and limited his jumps in the field. It also didn’t serve him at the plate. Rather than hit balls harder, he made such weak contact, his average exit velocity was a career-low 82.2 mph.

Robles shed the bulk after the 2020 season. He returned to working with Nationals minor-league hitting coach Jorge Mejia, who helped him learn to widen his stance in two-strike situations. When he arrived at spring training, Robles was noticeably leaner and doing a better job getting on base.

He couldn’t sustain the production in-season. When he finally showed signs of getting on track, going 10-for-32 (.313) over 11 mid-May games, an ankle sprain derailed his progress. Robles missed the next 10 days recovering from the injury.

Robles has batted .179 with 53 strikeouts compared to only 20 walks since returning from the injured list May 31. Incorporate his poor production last season and the picture of his futility becomes even grimmer. Robles has just 101 hits in his last 483 at-bats (.209). During a 159-game span dating to the start of the abbreviated 2020 campaign, he reached base only 30 percent of the time and struck out in almost one-quarter of his trips to the plate.

The Nationals can look at Robles’ batting profile and take some comfort in an improved contact rate on swings in the strike zone, a higher number of first-pitch takes, a reduced chase percentage and a higher walk rate. But he has spent two straight seasons fruitlessly trying to break out of a slump.

The Nationals determined extra time in the batting cages and early work with hitting coach Kevin Long would do Robles little good without an opportunity to apply his work in-game. And with Thomas entrenched as the team’s leadoff hitter, chances to break into the lineup have dwindled.

“Since Lane’s been here, he’s done well,” Martinez said of Thomas, who has gone 14-for-46 (.304) with six RBIs to start his Nationals career. “He’s really worked good at-bats, he’s hit, he’s taken some good walks. Right now, he’s earned the right to be out there and playing.”

Meanwhile, Robles will report to Triple-A Rochester, a team with another month of games left on its schedule. When he eventually joins the Red Wings, the beginning of his stint will mark the first time Robles has played non-rehab games in the minor leagues since late 2018. He hasn’t been demoted since the Nationals chose to keep him off their opening day roster in 2018, six months after he made his MLB debut.

What comes next will depend on multiple factors, chief among them will be Robles’ response. If he goes down and reaches base consistently, he could make his way back to the big leagues soon. If he scuffles, the Nationals might just send him home to the Dominican Republic at season’s end with another list of things to work on.

Whatever happens, Martinez made it clear to Robles in their meeting Tuesday, which he said “hurt me a lot because I love Victor to death,” that the Nationals aren’t giving up on him. They’re only giving him a chance to reset.

“I’ve said this before and I mean this with all my heart: We want Victor to be successful up here,” Martinez said. “He’s still young. He’s (24) years old. He’s got a bright future here with us. I don’t want him to think about anything but going out there and playing. I want him to relax for a while, go down to Rochester, play every day, continue to work on the things that he’s been working on with K-Long and just go out and play baseball.

“I know this is not the last we’re gonna see of Victor. I just want him to just kind of take a load off his mind and not put too much pressure on himself. Just go down there, get things right, get his swing right and hopefully it won’t take him long to get back up here.”

[imref]

what kind of pressure is there playing for a team currently in 'tank mode'?

[GburgNatsFan]

Does the AAA season extend through September? I thought it was over soon...