How do you feel about DC as a Baseball/Sprotstown?

[nats4ever]

How do you guys feel about DC as a sportstown. Caps just one the cup. We got the nats, wiz, and skins. I think the popularity on the teams depends on who wins. I think it's an average sports town. I think that the Nats can build something if they can be consistent winners, and get a lot of world series championships. I think DC is better than Florida as for the major for the major four sports. Thoughts?

[Slateman]

DC is, and will forever be, the ultimate bandwagon town.

[bluestreak]

DC is, and will forever be, the ultimate bandwagon town.

I agree. But I came here from the Midwest. Detroit sports fans are in my opinion the most die hard despite lots of losing, so maybe I’m biased.
The Demographics of DC hurt it a lot in this respect. Lots of transplants (I’m one), so a lots of fans haven’t been fans since childhood. And a lot of people here came as fans of other teams. Plus DC is an event town. People like to be involved when it’s a big event. And a losing team isn’t really an event.

I think if you accept those facts it makes the DC sports scene more understandable. I imagine still infuriating though.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I agree. But I came here from the Midwest. Detroit sports fans are in my opinion the most die hard despite lots of losing, so maybe I’m biased.
The Demographics of DC hurt it a lot in this respect. Lots of transplants (I’m one), so a lots of fans haven’t been fans since childhood. And a lot of people here came as fans of other teams. Plus DC is an event town. People like to be involved when it’s a big event. And a losing team isn’t really an event.

Interestingly enough, there are some cities/teams that still manage to make their games "events" despite losing.  Namely LA teams (specifically the Dodgers and Lakers) and the Cubs (thanks to the vibe of Wrigley).  The Nats don't have any of the pull factors (celebrities, a historic/epic venue) that those teams have, though, so there's no way in hell they'd ever get that kind of "event" status.

I do think "the ultimate bandwagon town" is a huge stretch.  It's definitely a bandwagon town, but DC is absurdly loyal when it comes to football (the Redskins under Snyder hardly deserve fans, let alone a devout fanbase the size of which they still have) and more bandwagon for everything else.  That describes a lot of markets in the U.S.  I've lived in Texas for a few years now and heard nary a peep about baseball outside of the Astros' run.  Even then, it was kind of tepid. 

Florida is also notoriously fickle, especially Miami.  I'd call Miami a much bigger bandwagon town than DC, in fact.

And then look at what happened with the Phillies these last few years.  Attendance under 2 million in a larger market than DC.

[bluestreak]

Interestingly enough, there are some cities/teams that still manage to make their games "events" despite losing.  Namely LA teams (specifically the Dodgers and Lakers) and the Cubs (thanks to the vibe of Wrigley).  The Nats don't have any of the pull factors (celebrities, a historic/epic venue) that those teams have, though, so there's no way in hell they'd ever get that kind of "event" status.

I do think "the ultimate bandwagon town" is a huge stretch.  It's definitely a bandwagon town, but DC is absurdly loyal when it comes to football (the Redskins under Snyder hardly deserve fans, let alone a devout fanbase the size of which they still have) and more bandwagon for everything else.  That describes a lot of markets in the U.S.  I've lived in Texas for a few years now and heard nary a peep about baseball outside of the Astros' run.  Even then, it was kind of tepid. 

Florida is also notoriously fickle, especially Miami.  I'd call Miami a much bigger bandwagon town than DC, in fact.

And then look at what happened with the Phillies these last few years.  Attendance under 2 million in a larger market than DC.

I do agree about the Re#^~ns. They have a lot of fans despite being repeatedly clowned by the ownership.

[Baseball is Life]

I really don't see the point in comparing DC with other cities, especially when it comes to baseball. This city is very unique with special attributes and challenges, all of which are very well known.

[Mathguy]

Bil - that's a copout.  DC has some advantages, such as people arriving from all over the country.  These folks bring with them their interests in their former local teams.  That means there are often fans in the stand rooting for the away team.  But it brings fans to the stands.

If the DC teams is competitive, people will support them. 

I really don't see the point in comparing DC with other cities, especially when it comes to baseball. This city is very unique with special attributes and challenges, all of which are very well known.

[Slateman]

I agree. But I came here from the Midwest. Detroit sports fans are in my opinion the most die hard despite lots of losing, so maybe I’m biased.
The Demographics of DC hurt it a lot in this respect. Lots of transplants (I’m one), so a lots of fans haven’t been fans since childhood. And a lot of people here came as fans of other teams. Plus DC is an event town. People like to be involved when it’s a big event. And a losing team isn’t really an event.

I think if you accept those facts it makes the DC sports scene more understandable. I imagine still infuriating though.

It's the nature of the city in general. It's driven by politics, which is largely a game of jumping on the bandwagon. There are a few people that grew up in the NCR, but by and large, this area is filled with people who moved here and are fans of whoever is good.

[LoveAngelos]

I grew up and have lived here most of my life and don't consider it a very good sports town. There is an exhaustive list why in my mind but I don't think any other city has so many local, natives like myself, who follow or root for teams from other cities.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I really don't see the point in comparing DC with other cities, especially when it comes to baseball. This city is very unique with special attributes and challenges, all of which are very well known.

I agree with your points.  The city is unique for all the factors mentioned (transplants, historic ties to teams, nature of the big industry, geography . . .). It can be a success in any sport - I think the Caps-love shows it.  The NFL team has long roots and is the team for the locals (I don't think transplants adopt them).  If anything, I'd say that, for a team that has been in town less than 15 years, the Nats have sunk down more roots and developed a better following than probably could have been expected given that they are still under .500 for the period.

[HalfSmokes]

I agree. But I came here from the Midwest. Detroit sports fans are in my opinion the most die hard despite lots of losing, so maybe I’m biased.
The Demographics of DC hurt it a lot in this respect. Lots of transplants (I’m one), so a lots of fans haven’t been fans since childhood. And a lot of people here came as fans of other teams. Plus DC is an event town. People like to be involved when it’s a big event. And a losing team isn’t really an event.

I think if you accept those facts it makes the DC sports scene more understandable. I imagine still infuriating though.

I think DC gets a bad rap mostly because part of the story about DC sports is about how bad a sports town it is. If Detroit is the most die hard, DC must be at least ok since the Redskins, Wizards, and Nats have better attendance than the lions, pistons and tigers. The only team that has better attendance is the red wings (isn't only supporting winners the justification that other people in the thread are using to bash DC?).

Most cities come out for winners and stay home for losers; look at cities that get held out as a great sports cities with great fans and holds

[varoadking]

I think DC gets a bad rap mostly because part of the story about DC sports is about how bad a sports town it is. If Detroit is the most die hard, DC must be at least ok since the Redskins, Wizards, and Nats have better attendance than the lions, pistons and tigers. The only team that has better attendance is the red wings (isn't only supporting winners the justification that other people in the thread are using to bash DC?).

Most cities come out for winners and stay home for losers; look at cities that get held out as a great sports cities with great fans and holds

I get the feeling that the point isn't attendance, per se, but which fans are in attendance.  DC teams routinely have large visiting team fan contingents.  I would not think that to be the case in the Motor City...

[HalfSmokes]

I get the feeling that the point isn't attendance, per se, but which fans are in attendance.  DC teams routinely have large visiting team fan contingents.  I would not think that to be the case in the Motor City...

I think some of that comes to convenience- where the drive is easy and the visiting team is good, you get visiting fans (i.e. packers at lions, cavs at pistons). 

[Optics]

DC is a perfectly good sports town. The problem is historically our teams have sucked. Its hard to get a real good consistent fan support when you go generations without winning.

People rave about Boston but Celtics games were barren when they were bad in the late 90s/early 00s. Nobody went to Phillies games the last several years.

[UMDNats]

I get the feeling that the point isn't attendance, per se, but which fans are in attendance.  DC teams routinely have large visiting team fan contingents.  I would not think that to be the case in the Motor City...

because no one travels/makes a trip to detroit. dc is a huge destination, close to tons of other major cities, lots of flights in and out, etc.

"the packers never have opposing fans! best sports town!"

because no one wants to visit green bay

every major US city on the east coast has lots of opposing fans, as does chicago/LA.


DC is a fine sports city, it's got great support of its teams, especially the nats. everyone my age who grew up with the nats is a huge fan. the caps are insanely popular too. it's changing a lot as people are sick and tired of dan snyder. most people my age (who are all affluent/successful late-20s/early-30s) have directed their interest to the nats/caps and mostly just watch teh redskins out of tradition.

[houston-nat]

You guys stress it out too much. It's a just fine sprotstown. And your teams haven't all left for the suburbs!

[HalfSmokes]

DC is a perfectly good sports town. The problem is historically our teams have sucked. Its hard to get a real good consistent fan support when you go generations without winning.

People rave about Boston but Celtics games were barren when they were bad in the late 90s/early 00s. Nobody went to Phillies games the last several years.

the only exception used to be the cubs because losing was part of the team's identity and a large portion of fans embraced it. I'll be curious to see what happens to their attendance during their next rebuild

[bluestreak]

I think DC gets a bad rap mostly because part of the story about DC sports is about how bad a sports town it is. If Detroit is the most die hard, DC must be at least ok since the Redskins, Wizards, and Nats have better attendance than the lions, pistons and tigers. The only team that has better attendance is the red wings (isn't only supporting winners the justification that other people in the thread are using to bash DC?).

Most cities come out for winners and stay home for losers; look at cities that get held out as a great sports cities with great fans and holds

Any team that consistently loses will have a decrease in attendance (with some exceptions, like the Packers), that's the nature of sports. The true test of how loyal a fan base is, is how quickly they start to abandon the team when they start losing.

In Detroit, the Wings still have high attendance despite really sucking the last two years and sucking compared to historical norms for the last 4 or 5. The Lions stadium was 98.7% full last year but the R-dSk*ns were 88.4% full. And the Lions have had good attendance despite being awful. The Tigers are 16th in attendance last year while they were literally the worst team in baseball.

So it takes years there before the fans defect. The feeling I get here is that DC fans start to turn on their teams after a 5 or 6 game losing streak. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think so.

[Baseball is Life]

Bil - that's a copout.  DC has some advantages, such as people arriving from all over the country.  These folks bring with them their interests in their former local teams.  That means there are often fans in the stand rooting for the away team.  But it brings fans to the stands.

If the DC teams is competitive, people will support them. 

Maybe it's a cop out or I just think the topic is played out. One aspect I don't hear much about (when it comes to baseball) are the number of tourists that attend games. I would be interested in seeing data on that. I'm not talking about fans of the opposing team, I'm talking about DC tourists who just want to take in a ball game. Many large tour groups means many tickets sold.

I know that's a bit of a tangent re whether it's a sports town or not, but I just don't think there's much new to say about that topic that has not been discussed ad nauseum.

[HalfSmokes]

Any team that consistently loses will have a decrease in attendance (with some exceptions, like the Packers), that's the nature of sports. The true test of how loyal a fan base is, is how quickly they start to abandon the team when they start losing.

In Detroit, the Wings still have high attendance despite really sucking the last two years and sucking compared to historical norms for the last 4 or 5. The Lions stadium was 98.7% full last year but the R-dSk*ns were 88.4% full. And the Lions have had good attendance despite being awful. The Tigers are 16th in attendance last year while they were literally the worst team in baseball.

So it takes years there before the fans defect. The feeling I get here is that DC fans start to turn on their teams after a 5 or 6 game losing streak. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think so.

The Lions last made the playoffs in 2016, Washington in 2015. Washington averaged 75,000 in 2017, Detroit averaged 64,000. If you want successful teams, in 2013 Detroit (winning team fresh off a world series) averaged 28,000 fans DC (winning team fresh off a division title) averaged 30,000. Maybe DC isn't so terrible   

[Baseball is Life]

The Lions last made the playoffs in 2016, Washington in 2015. Washington averaged 75,000 in 2017, Detroit averaged 64,000. If you want successful teams, in 2013 Detroit (winning team fresh off a world series) averaged 28,000 fans DC (winning team fresh off a division title) averaged 30,000. Maybe DC isn't so terrible   

I just don't think it's fair to compare cities that have vastly different populations. Without looking up the latest data, I bet Detroit metro area population is around 4M and DC area population is around 6M.

[HalfSmokes]

I just don't think it's fair to compare cities that have vastly different populations. Without looking up the latest data, I bet Detroit metro area population is around 4M and DC area population is around 6M.

that's fair, of course, by that standard, failing to sell out every game makes NYC fans suck

[UMDNats]

So it takes years there before the fans defect. The feeling I get here is that DC fans start to turn on their teams after a 5 or 6 game losing streak. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think so.

The Caps sold out every game this season despite being dog crap for the first half, after choking again last year and enthusiasm being as low as it's been in over 10 years.

High and mightiness from non-DC people cracks me up (looking at you, Wilbon) because that just proves that they have no idea what DC fans are actually like or look like.

My hot take is DC leads the leagues in ratio of goobers to fans. It's almost 1-to-1.

[bluestreak]

The Lions last made the playoffs in 2016, Washington in 2015. Washington averaged 75,000 in 2017, Detroit averaged 64,000. If you want successful teams, in 2013 Detroit (winning team fresh off a world series) averaged 28,000 fans DC (winning team fresh off a division title) averaged 30,000. Maybe DC isn't so terrible

We are looking at different stats. In 2013 MLB, Detroit average 38,066 (92.3%) and Washington Averaged 32,745 (78.9%)

http://proxy.espn.com/mlb/attendance?year=2013&sort=homePct

And as far as the football is concerned Fed Ex Field holds 82,000 people, Ford Field hold 65,000 people. So your stats above reflect 88.4% full for Washington and 98.7% full for Detroit. We need to compare apples to apples. And this isn't even taking into account the relative affluence of the two areas (I don't have data to support it, but my feeling is that there is a significant difference)

And I don't even think DC fans are bad. But I do think it's a bandwagon town because of factors that have been mentioned above. Hell, when the Nats play the Tigers next year I am going to wear the Old English D to at least one of the games. I mean maybe that makes me NANF, but it sorta makes me typical for DC.

[aspenbubba]

I just don't think it's fair to compare cities that have vastly different populations. Without looking up the latest data, I bet Detroit metro area population is around 4M and DC area population is around 6M.

Also the demographics are different relative to discretionary income