2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread

[aspenbubba]

And now they don't want to keep him in Miami, so it didn't work out so well. Why don't these teams think this all through to begin with?

New ownership

[dcpatti]

Because the marlins had a few stents where they wanted to be large market (remember when they brought in Reyes)

Miami *should be* a large market for MLB-- it's the 6th largest metro area in the US and has a huge Latinx population, predominantly Cuban-- these are people who grow up loving baseball. There is no reason other than crappy ownership/marketing for their attendance to be as bad as it is.  Heck, build a team around Puig, Cespedes, Gurriel, and Yescobar and with a decent ad campaign, you can print your own money.

[Ray D]

Miami *should be* a large market for MLB-- it's the 6th largest metro area in the US and has a huge Latinx population, predominantly Cuban-- these are people who grow up loving baseball.

Cubans in Cuba love baseball. Cubans in Miami are expatriated Cubans.  There is no particular reason for them to love baseball.

[imref]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/offseason-outlook-washington-nationals-7.html

[Slateman]

Mike Minor is a free agent. Sign him to replace Perez

[Natsinpwc]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/offseason-outlook-washington-nationals-7.html

[Natsinpwc]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/offseason-outlook-washington-nationals-7.html

sorry about that imref; didn't see you had posted until it was too late.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

You think immigrants abandon their culture. 

[skippy1999]

#teamknorr

[imref]

sorry about that imref; didn't see you had posted until it was too late.

No worries.  I have NEVER done that myself.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

A few folks complained about the personal insults.  The substantive point Knorr was making is in Reply #332 in response to #327 from Ray.  I kept the substance. 

On the substance, I agree with Knorr.  I don't think that immigrants from Cuba abandon baseball when they emigrate. It doesn't match what I know of families like Gio's and others who come out of the Florida baseball scene, it doesn't match any reporting I've seen, so I don't quite know where Ray is getting his idea.  You might want to look at the Marlins's attendance, but I think that has a ton more to do with how the franchise has been mismanaged, first with the bad stadium location (Joe Robby or whatever it is called) and then with the Loria "pump and dump" player development and skinny budget.

[hotshot]

Miami *should be* a large market for MLB-- it's the 6th largest metro area in the US and has a huge Latinx population, predominantly Cuban-- these are people who grow up loving baseball. There is no reason other than crappy ownership/marketing for their attendance to be as bad as it is.  Heck, build a team around Puig, Cespedes, Gurriel, and Yescobar and with a decent ad campaign, you can print your own money.

Marlins averaged a bit over 20,000 per home game (28th in MLB). My bet is a high percentage of those 20,000 were Cuban-Americans, or other Latinos. Nats, btw, were 11th overall, not exactly something to crow about with a Division winner, Cy Young winner, superstar Bryce and surrounding cast.

[Count Walewski]

I think South Florida disproportionately gets a big share of its Spanish-speaking immigrants from the parts of the Spanish-speaking world that play and follow baseball, not just Cuba. I think the issue is more that when people move to Florida from the rest of the United States, they've already got a favorite baseball team and aren't compelled to follow the Marlins.

I'm not aware of the Marlins ever failing to sell out a playoff game in 2003 or 1997. Win and all sorts of people will come. The University of Miami struggled with attendance for quite some time in the last decade, and now that they're undefeated you see an amazing array of folks at their home games. Everyone in Miami suddenly owns a turnover chain replica.

[nats4ever]

Marlins averaged a bit over 20,000 per home game (28th in MLB). My bet is a high percentage of those 20,000 were Cuban-Americans, or other Latinos. Nats, btw, were 11th overall, not exactly something to crow about with a Division winner, Cy Young winner, superstar Bryce and surrounding cast.

The attendance is better than being in last.

[dcpatti]

Kelvin Gutierrez (3B/SS) and Jefry Rodriguez (RHP) have been added to the 40-man roster, leaving 3 roster spaces for trades and FA acquisitions.  http://www.masnsports.com/nationals-pastime/2017/11/nationals-add-gutierrez-rodriguez-to-40-man-roster.html

I'm a big fan of Gutierrez. He batted .350 in the AFL and his 2017 season stats were .278/.340/.408 in 68 games, with 13 doubles, seven triples, two homers, 17 RBIs and five stolen bases. He missed a bunch of time with a sprained ankle. He's really nimble and plays solid defense. Not sure where he will start next year (my guess is Harrisburg rather than Syracuse though).

I think South Florida disproportionately gets a big share of its Spanish-speaking immigrants from the parts of the Spanish-speaking world that play and follow baseball, not just Cuba. I think the issue is more that when people move to Florida from the rest of the United States, they've already got a favorite baseball team and aren't compelled to follow the Marlins.

There's definitely a contingent who will not support the Marlins because they already have a favorite team, but for many in the Latinx community, their favorite team isn't part of MLB and they'd support the home team if you could get them to be interested. There have been an awful lot of missed marketing opportunities.

Marlins averaged a bit over 20,000 per home game (28th in MLB). My bet is a high percentage of those 20,000 were Cuban-Americans, or other Latinos. Nats, btw, were 11th overall, not exactly something to crow about with a Division winner, Cy Young winner, superstar Bryce and surrounding cast.

One of the real negatives of playing in a weak division is that opponent fans don't want to travel to your park. Remember the oceans of Phillies fans that used to come to DC? Or heck, even the big groups of Mets fans (apart from the 7-Line Army; they only make one trip per year).  If those teams suck, their fans don't go on road trips. You need the rival fans to help fill the stadium. Few teams fill up on just "home" fans. Heck, not even the obnoxious O's fans are turning up, and half of them  don't even have a very long trip. It's just not fun going on the road to watch your team lose.

[Ray D]

A few folks complained about the personal insults.  The substantive point Knorr was making is in Reply #332 in response to #327 from Ray.  I kept the substance. 

On the substance, I agree with Knorr.  I don't think that immigrants from Cuba abandon baseball when they emigrate. It doesn't match what I know of families like Gio's and others who come out of the Florida baseball scene, it doesn't match any reporting I've seen, so I don't quite know where Ray is getting his idea.  You might want to look at the Marlins's attendance, but I think that has a ton more to do with how the franchise has been mismanaged, first with the bad stadium location (Joe Robby or whatever it is called) and then with the Loria "pump and dump" player development and skinny budget.

Sorry JCA I don't like getting into a pissing match but that jerk seems to bring out the worst in me and everyone else.  It doesn't matter whether my theory  was correct or not, I posted it and he immediately called me stupid with no elaboration (that post has apparently been deleted).  There was no reason for that sort of name calling.  He's an jerk.

[imref]

Cardinals have reportedly made an offer for Stanton

[Slateman]

Cardinals have reportedly made an offer for Stanton

A formal offer. Like, in a tuxedo, on bone colored paper, in Silian Grail lettering

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Kelvin Gutierrez (3B/SS) and Jefry Rodriguez (RHP) have been added to the 40-man roster, leaving 3 roster spaces for trades and FA acquisitions.  http://www.masnsports.com/nationals-pastime/2017/11/nationals-add-gutierrez-rodriguez-to-40-man-roster.html

I'm a big fan of Gutierrez. He batted .350 in the AFL and his 2017 season stats were .278/.340/.408 in 68 games, with 13 doubles, seven triples, two homers, 17 RBIs and five stolen bases. He missed a bunch of time with a sprained ankle. He's really nimble and plays solid defense. Not sure where he will start next year (my guess is Harrisburg rather than Syracuse though).

from the Jaynes article, it looks like they are exposing both Gushue and S Kieboom.  I think the rule is that you can pull a player back if you lose a player.  I suppose they pull one catcher if the other gets taken.

[Slateman]

Craig Mish ✔ @CraigMish
Source : Giants/Marlins names exchanged in potential Stanton deal : (SF) 2B Joe Panik, Top Prospects SP Tyler Beede & OF Chris Shaw. (Mia) Stanton & 2B Dee Gordon.


If the Giants really offered that, the Marlins should have taken it and run

[bluestreak]

I thought Stanton didn’t want to go to SF or St. Louis.

[dcpatti]

from the Jaynes article, it looks like they are exposing both Gushue and S Kieboom.  I think the rule is that you can pull a player back if you lose a player.  I suppose they pull one catcher if the other gets taken.

I think the risk of S Kieboom being taken is lower; he hasn't really developed the way he was expected to, and he really struggled for most of last year, although he did seem to start turning things around late in the season.  Gushue seems to have the higher ceiling.

[Slateman]

I thought Stanton didn’t want to go to SF or St. Louis.

Does he have no trade rights yet? If I were him, I'd want to be anywhere but Miami at this point.

[Slateman]

Mark Apel was DFA'd. Nats should pick him up.

[Expos]

Craig Mish ✔ @CraigMish
Source : Giants/Marlins names exchanged in potential Stanton deal : (SF) 2B Joe Panik, Top Prospects SP Tyler Beede & OF Chris Shaw. (Mia) Stanton & 2B Dee Gordon.


If the Giants really offered that, the Marlins should have taken it and run

That's It?? For a MVP who almost cracked 60 homers??

Good Lord Rizzo get on it.