Mets are buying the Chiefs

[LincolnDD]

Yeah, Richmond just isn't happening.  There isn't a realistic scenario that would make that a possibility anytime soon.  And other places (Harrisburg, Pawtucket) are even less likely.

Hate to say it, but 2020 is going to be a lot like 2018.  Once you get sucked into the PCL, it's hard to get out (ask the Mets, Marlins and Blue Jays...).  I know we look at the chart and see all those agreements expiring in 2020, but most will be renewed in the next two years.  And with the Marlins' team getting moved to Wichita, they may become more aggressive in their pursuit of an IL team, so more competition.

We can dream on places like Charlotte and Durham, but I don't think any are very realistic.  Charlotte was tops in attendance this year.  Why would they change things?  Durham just won yet another IL championship.  Tampa's been very, very, very good to them.  Maybe things are 'meh' enough in Indy where they don't bring the Pirates back?  But Rochester is still likely to be the best bet to get back into the IL next time around.   The Nats should buy a bunch of season tickets in Rochester and pay fans to go to every home game decked out head to toe in Nationals gear.  Make it look like there's a loyal Washington fan base there.  I'm kidding, but desperate times...

And yep, you want to put an IL AAA team in a city that doesn't currently have one?  Then start rooting for Oakland and Tampa to get their new parks.  Once that happens, MLB expansion efforts will start to gain steam.  With new MLB teams comes new MiLB teams.  I think that's when a place like Richmond for AAA becomes more realistic (Richmond and Jacksonville make the most sense, imo), and you'd hope to see ownership make a push to be involved.

[imref]

http://www.masnsports.com/nationals-pastime/2018/09/sorting-through-the-nationals-new-triple-a-affiliation.html

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Yeah, Richmond just isn't happening.  There isn't a realistic scenario that would make that a possibility anytime soon.  And other places (Harrisburg, Pawtucket) are even less likely.

You are probably right, but, depending on the indulgence of John Henry, an AA franchise might make sense for Pawtucket. It really is an AA stadium (smallest in the IL).  I don't see them moving out of Portland (they may own the Seas Dogs, and the stadium has the same proportions as Fenway), but it might be a place for a relocated AA franchise were Richmond to move up.  For the Giants, for example, it's probably easier to get a flight out of Logan or Providence as it is out of Richmond. 

[imref]

You are probably right, but, depending on the indulgence of John Henry, an AA franchise might make sense for Pawtucket. It really is an AA stadium (smallest in the IL).  I don't see them moving out of Portland (they may own the Seas Dogs, and the stadium has the same proportions as Fenway), but it might be a place for a relocated AA franchise were Richmond to move up.  For the Giants, for example, it's probably easier to get a flight out of Logan or Providence as it is out of Richmond. 

Zuck noted in the article I posted above that the Richmond stadium doesn't meet AAA standards so it's not an option.  Unfortunately it seems like we'll be stuck in Fresno for quite a while unless we follow the Mets lead and buy a team, and that's going to cost a boatload of cash.  For example, Lehigh Valley is valued at around $50 million.

[dcpatti]

The Nats could also buy an ownership stake rather than a full team-- a few of the teams (Charlotte, Buffalo) are owned by single owners rather than ownership groups or corporations (or governments, as is the case with Columbus).  This is the model the Yankees have with the Rail Riders: they are a large minority owner, with an ownership group maintaining the majority share.   For the guy in Charlotte, owning a team is very much a vanity project, so getting him (or someone like him) to sell outright might be difficult at any price, but you may be able to buy a third of the team or whatever, spending less money to get the control you need.

[imref]

The Nats could also buy an ownership stake rather than a full team-- a few of the teams (Charlotte, Buffalo) are owned by single owners rather than ownership groups or corporations (or governments, as is the case with Columbus).  This is the model the Yankees have with the Rail Riders: they are a large minority owner, with an ownership group maintaining the majority share.

Good point.  That seems like the ideal approach to ensure we aren't shifting AAA teams around every few years.  Fresno is our 4th affiliate in ten years I think.

[UMDNats]

Good point.  That seems like the ideal approach to ensure we aren't shifting AAA teams around every few years.  Fresno is our 4th affiliate in ten years I think.

We're still only 13 years into existence, which seems like a lot but isn't. A lot of affiliates in AAA have long-standing relationships. I think we failed to make finding a long-term home a priority. We should have locked in Syracuse a long time ago. Hopefully over the next 18-24 months we make it right.

[LincolnDD]

You are probably right, but, depending on the indulgence of John Henry, an AA franchise might make sense for Pawtucket. It really is an AA stadium (smallest in the IL).  I don't see them moving out of Portland (they may own the Seas Dogs, and the stadium has the same proportions as Fenway), but it might be a place for a relocated AA franchise were Richmond to move up.  For the Giants, for example, it's probably easier to get a flight out of Logan or Providence as it is out of Richmond.

The Pawtucket franchise will (reportedly) still have territorial rights over that area even after they move, and could possible/probably object to an upper-level minor league team set up close by, especially if it's not affiliated with the Red Sox.

http://www.sunjournal.com/pawsox-are-moving-to-worcester-but-sea-dogs-not-likely-to-leave-portland-for-pawtucket/

[LincolnDD]

The Nats could also buy an ownership stake rather than a full team-- a few of the teams (Charlotte, Buffalo) are owned by single owners rather than ownership groups or corporations (or governments, as is the case with Columbus).  This is the model the Yankees have with the Rail Riders: they are a large minority owner, with an ownership group maintaining the majority share.   For the guy in Charlotte, owning a team is very much a vanity project, so getting him (or someone like him) to sell outright might be difficult at any price, but you may be able to buy a third of the team or whatever, spending less money to get the control you need.

Seems like the most realistic possibility.  Good point.

[LincolnDD]

http://www.masnsports.com/nationals-pastime/2018/09/sorting-through-the-nationals-new-triple-a-affiliation.html

Very good read.  I think folks have been really hard on Rizzo and ownership about the affiliation issue, but there wasn't a whole lot they could do about it.

The Rochester scenario was interesting.  I don't know how stable their community ownership situation is (seems better than what Syracuse had).  I think they just signed a long-term stadium lease, so I don't know that it would be very easy to move them.  Similar situation in New Orleans.  The lease there is only a few years, but it sounds like they're looking to buy a Southern League team to take over the current lease when they move the PCL team to Wichita.  So if you wanted to go with Zuckerman's scenario, I guess you could hope to swap the Rochester and Richmond franchises (assuming the current Richmond ownership would be open to that; Rochester is in the Eastern League territory).

Fun to play around with these scenarios, but not likely to happen.

[dcpatti]

We're still only 13 years into existence, which seems like a lot but isn't. A lot of affiliates in AAA have long-standing relationships. I think we failed to make finding a long-term home a priority. We should have locked in Syracuse a long time ago. Hopefully over the next 18-24 months we make it right.

Should probably find a way to lock up Harrisburg while we are on the topic, because even though everyone is fixated with Richmond, the ballpark in Harrisburg is pretty darn nice, is in better condition than the park in Richmond, and it's very convenient to DC for quick call-ups, but because the Senators haven't been drawing big crowds for the last few seasons, they may be under some economic pressures that would make them a target for a team wishing to buy an AA franchise.

I do think that 15-20 years from now, the majority of MiLB teams will be owned or partially-owned by their MLB affiliate.  Might as well beat the other guys to the punch.

[GburgNatsFan]

Agreed. Putting aside the fact that City Island floods dramatically every couple of years (didn't hear anything this summer about it, oddly), it's a pretty nice park.

Should probably find a way to lock up Harrisburg while we are on the topic, because even though everyone is fixated with Richmond, the ballpark in Harrisburg is pretty darn nice, is in better condition than the park in Richmond, and it's very convenient to DC for quick call-ups, but because the Senators haven't been drawing big crowds for the last few seasons, they may be under some economic pressures that would make them a target for a team wishing to buy an AA franchise.

I do think that 15-20 years from now, the majority of MiLB teams will be owned or partially-owned by their MLB affiliate.  Might as well beat the other guys to the punch.

[DPMOmaha]

Looking at the AAA teams and I think if the Nats are gonna want to get closer to DC, they're likely gonna have to do what the Mets did and try and buy into a franchise like Norfolk or Rochester, as has been mentioned. None of those teams are moving. They've all got nice facilities, many have been in their communities for decades.

[HalfSmokes]

Norfolk isn’t going to be for sale anytime soon to anyone other than the Os. Best bet would be to offer to buy a team owned by a public company- are there any left?- and then just wait out the current lease and agreements 

[Natsinpwc]

http://www.masnsports.com/nationals-pastime/2018/09/sorting-through-the-nationals-new-triple-a-affiliation.html

“It’s probably not as big a deal as many are making it out to be.” 

Fresno is close to the Sierra National Forest and Yosemite. Just saying.

[DPMOmaha]

Looks like Rochester is community owned. Maybe that's the one to keep

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/2017/05/19/rochester-red-wings-shareholders-new-york-abandoned-property/101766040/
https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/01/29/rochester-red-wings-could-leave-after-2018-if-frontier-field-lease-not-resolved/1074283001/

[dcpatti]

Looking at the AAA teams and I think if the Nats are gonna want to get closer to DC, they're likely gonna have to do what the Mets did and try and buy into a franchise like Norfolk or Rochester, as has been mentioned. None of those teams are moving. They've all got nice facilities, many have been in their communities for decades.

Norfolk, Bowie and Frederick are all O's affiliates and all owned by the same entity (who apparently also owns a couple of west coast teams like the Albuquerque Isotopes).  They all get big attendance bumps from the O's-- a lot of folks who go to the Naval Academy end up stationed in Norfolk, for example. We can just go ahead and cross Norfolk off the list of possibles.

Rochester is community owned in the same model as Syracuse, so it may be an option; but from what I understand, there has been a lot of negative feedback from the community over the handling of the Syracuse sale, so there might be more resistance in Rochester.

[HalfSmokes]

At least NY tax payers are getting screwed by this

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2018/09/25/14131/new-yorkers-about-to-pay-more-than-1m-a-year-for-mets-triple-a-team-to-stay-in-syracuse/

[LincolnDD]

Anyone follow the rest of the affiliation dance this year?  Ended up with just a few more changes:  a three-way shuffle at Low-A, and a swap at the Double-A level in the Southern League.  The Brewers ended up sticking with the Rookie level team that moved from Helena to Colorado Springs, and likewise the Padres with the Double-A team that moved from San Antonio to Amarillo.

That last one turned out to be really frustrating (to me).  I thought for sure the Padres would be all-in on that move: brand new ballpark (after being in the substandard San Antonio park for years) and one of the farthest west of any team at AA, relatively close to their Triple-A team in El Paso.  But the Padres instead made a hard push for Pensacola after they kicked the Reds out. 

I thought that was weird, then read that the Padres were wary of the high altitude/dry air environment in Amarillo that tends to boost offense and hinder pitcher development.  And you can't blame them, as their Triple-A and High-A teams are both in those kinds of environments (and leagues).  But that got me wondering, why the heck did they re-upped with El Paso before the negotiation period if they are concerned about that kind of environment? 

We've busted on the A's for not taking the logical geographic fit in Fresno, but if the Padres wanted to avoid all their upper levels at altitude, Fresno makes a crap ton of sense for them.  Fresno is going to be a travel headache for any team, but they have direct flights to every NL West city (and also Seattle, San Diego's designated inter-league "rival"), so it wouldn't be as significant an issue for San Diego.  It also would give them a foothold into Dodgers/Giants territory.

I know it's a moot point, but still frustrating.  I'd also read that, going back to last year when the Rangers knew they were getting dumped by Round Rock, that even then they were wary of San Antonio without a ballpark upgrade.  But they loved the idea of El Paso.  So I get a little ticked thinking that it could've/should've been San Diego in Fresno and Texas in El Paso, leaving Nashville open as an obvious Nats fit.

Oh, well.

[Smithian]

Anyone follow the rest of the affiliation dance this year?  Ended up with just a few more changes:  a three-way shuffle at Low-A, and a swap at the Double-A level in the Southern League.  The Brewers ended up sticking with the Rookie level team that moved from Helena to Colorado Springs, and likewise the Padres with the Double-A team that moved from San Antonio to Amarillo.

That last one turned out to be really frustrating (to me).  I thought for sure the Padres would be all-in on that move: brand new ballpark (after being in the substandard San Antonio park for years) and one of the farthest west of any team at AA, relatively close to their Triple-A team in El Paso.  But the Padres instead made a hard push for Pensacola after they kicked the Reds out. 

I thought that was weird, then read that the Padres were wary of the high altitude/dry air environment in Amarillo that tends to boost offense and hinder pitcher development.  And you can't blame them, as their Triple-A and High-A teams are both in those kinds of environments (and leagues).  But that got me wondering, why the heck did they re-upped with El Paso before the negotiation period if they are concerned about that kind of environment? 

We've busted on the A's for not taking the logical geographic fit in Fresno, but if the Padres wanted to avoid all their upper levels at altitude, Fresno makes a crap ton of sense for them.  Fresno is going to be a travel headache for any team, but they have direct flights to every NL West city (and also Seattle, San Diego's designated inter-league "rival"), so it wouldn't be as significant an issue for San Diego.  It also would give them a foothold into Dodgers/Giants territory.

I know it's a moot point, but still frustrating.  I'd also read that, going back to last year when the Rangers knew they were getting dumped by Round Rock, that even then they were wary of San Antonio without a ballpark upgrade.  But they loved the idea of El Paso.  So I get a little ticked thinking that it could've/should've been San Diego in Fresno and Texas in El Paso, leaving Nashville open as an obvious Nats fit.

Oh, well.

Good post. It hurts the brain to think how this turned out so badly for Nats.

[Nick the Pig]

Richmond, god dammit !

Make it happen...

[GburgNatsFan]

I think the Nats are happy with their lower-level affiliates.

Richmond, god dammit !

Make it happen...

[Nick the Pig]

I think the Nats are happy with their lower-level affiliates.

Richmond should have a AAA team...

[Natsinpwc]

Richmond should have a AAA team...

Why?

[Nick the Pig]

Why?

They are a decent sized city.  In an area that the Nats should shore up for their fandom.