Out of Town Ballparks

[NJ Ave]

I think it's cute you all are pretending there is a reason for moving from a 20-year old stadium, beyond the fact that an existing stadium doesn't give anyone the opportunity to funnel construction contracts to their friends or allow investment bankers to skim millions off the bonds that need to be issued.

It's a con.

[Count Walewski]

Atlanta and now Arizona leaving downtown stadiums built in the 1990's for new suburban digs. Is this going to become a trend?

[UMDNats]

I think it's cute you all are pretending there is a reason for moving from a 20-year old stadium, beyond the fact that an existing stadium doesn't give anyone the opportunity to funnel construction contracts to their friends or allow investment bankers to skim millions off the bonds that need to be issued.

It's a con.

what happened in atlanta with the braves was a downright travesty. freak these owners that cry poor when they want a brand new stadium to make even MORE money, but most of all freak those city leaders who get bribed and push these things through.

[imref]

Atlanta and now Arizona leaving downtown stadiums built in the 1990's for new suburban digs. Is this going to become a trend?

Per this report: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/05/09/diamondbacks-allowed-seek-alternatives-chase-field/597057002/

The team was locked in a dispute with Maricopa County over spending $189 million in stadium repairs and upgrades.  The county decided it was cheaper to just let them move to a new stadium, in which case they will only spend $20 million to reimburse the D-Backs for repairs.  They are looking at building on tribal land, with a guarantee that the County would get the same amount of tax revenue.

[NJ Ave]

Per this report: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/05/09/diamondbacks-allowed-seek-alternatives-chase-field/597057002/

The team was locked in a dispute with Maricopa County over spending $189 million in stadium repairs and upgrades.  The county decided it was cheaper to just let them move to a new stadium, in which case they will only spend $20 million to reimburse the D-Backs for repairs.  They are looking at building on tribal land, with a guarantee that the County would get the same amount of tax revenue.

If by "locked in a dispute" you mean asking for $145 million out of $187 million to spend on things the team - not the county - was obligated to pay for under the original agreement....then yes they were "locked in a dispute".

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2016/04/14/10919/county-to-d-backs-most-of-187m-in-upgrade-demands-is-items-team-agreed-to-pay-for/

The team was holding the county hostage to pay for suite renovations and LED scoreboards. Good for the county for cutting bait. The whole business is shameful. Ken Kendrick paid $238 million for the team in 2004 and it's now worth $1.2 billion according to Forbes. God forbid you pay for your own giant TVs.

[bluestreak]

If by "locked in a dispute" you mean asking for $145 million out of $187 million to spend on things the team - not the county - was obligated to pay for under the original agreement....then yes they were "locked in a dispute".

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2016/04/14/10919/county-to-d-backs-most-of-187m-in-upgrade-demands-is-items-team-agreed-to-pay-for/

The team was holding the county hostage to pay for suite renovations and LED scoreboards. Good for the county for cutting bait. The whole business is shameful. Ken Kendrick paid $238 million for the team in 2004 and it's now worth $1.2 billion according to Forbes. God forbid you pay for your own giant TVs.

The mentality of billionaires requires thinking like this. Imagine amassing $500 million dollars and thinking "This isn't enough. I need to make more." It takes a special type of person to have that mentality. You can debate whether its admirable or pathologic, but I don't think you can turn it off.

[Natsinpwc]

Going to th Astros-Indians game in Cleveland tonight. Will have an update later.

[mitlen]

Going to th Astros-Indians game in Cleveland tonight. Will have an update later.

I went to the Jake when it first opened (not sure what it is now).    Cleveland ain't a bad place to hang out before/after the game.

[HalfSmokes]

I think it's cute you all are pretending there is a reason for moving from a 20-year old stadium, beyond the fact that an existing stadium doesn't give anyone the opportunity to funnel construction contracts to their friends or allow investment bankers to skim millions off the bonds that need to be issued.

It's a con.

I dont know, owners getting a free stadium along with the land it sits on seems reason enough to go to the well as long as politicians are stupid enough to let it happen

[aspenbubba]

I dont know, owners getting a free stadium along with the land it sits on seems reason enough to go to the well as long as politicians are stupid enough to let it happen

Don't the Lerners' pay rent for the Park? And what about the increasing land values around the stadium that grow the tax base ? In 2002 I was a sub-contractor for a building on 11th St. S.E. Even though the tenant was a defense contractor I couldn't believe that a developer would invest in that shi-hole area. Now the area is full of apartment buildings and offices and restaurants making it a viable place to work and live. Every time I attend a game I marvel at the number of cranes ( DC state bird) in the area and realize that within five years there will not be any surface parking lots left. It seems that it is a win-win situation for the city and the tax payers.

[NJ Ave]

Don't the Lerners' pay rent for the Park? And what about the increasing land values around the stadium that grow the tax base ? In 2002 I was a sub-contractor for a building on 11th St. S.E. Even though the tenant was a defense contractor I couldn't believe that a developer would invest in that shi-hole area. Now the area is full of apartment buildings and offices and restaurants making it a viable place to work and live. Every time I attend a game I marvel at the number of cranes ( DC state bird) in the area and realize that within five years there will not be any surface parking lots left. It seems that it is a win-win situation for the city and the tax payers.

DC is certainly one of the most successful examples, although you can probably make a good argument that the development would have happened anyways. After all, NoMa, H St/North Capitol Hill, Petworth, Columbia Heights, 14th St/Logan Circle and other neighborhoods have similarly developed over the same time period without having an anchor ballpark.

But it turned out as well as these things do. It didn't hamstring the city's ability to issue debt, and the dedicated tax to service the debt has brought back more revenue than expected (I think that's correct). In the end, while it doesn't really make sense for cities to have to pay for these stadiums, its really nice to have a stadium in the middle of downtown instead of having a suburban #mallpark like the Barves.

[Natsinpwc]

I went to the Jake when it first opened (not sure what it is now).    Cleveland ain't a bad place to hang out before/after the game.

Progressive Field now. Nice stadium. Will hang out in Cleveland today.

[bluestreak]

DC is certainly one of the most successful examples, although you can probably make a good argument that the development would have happened anyways. After all, NoMa, H St/North Capitol Hill, Petworth, Columbia Heights, 14th St/Logan Circle and other neighborhoods have similarly developed over the same time period without having an anchor ballpark.

But it turned out as well as these things do. It didn't hamstring the city's ability to issue debt, and the dedicated tax to service the debt has brought back more revenue than expected (I think that's correct). In the end, while it doesn't really make sense for cities to have to pay for these stadiums, its really nice to have a stadium in the middle of downtown instead of having a suburban #mallpark like the Barves.

I live in Petworth and while the development here and in Columbia Heights is impressive, it’s nowhere near the level of the area around the park. I definitely think the stadium accelerated growth.

[mitlen]

Progressive Field now. Nice stadium. Will hang out in Cleveland today.

Rock and Roll HOF is a must.

[imref]

Rock and Roll HOF is a must.

The warehouse district was pretty nice when I was last there 20 years ago or so.

[mitlen]

The warehouse district was pretty nice when I was last there 20 years ago or so.

Rode the bikes to Cleveland for a weekend moons ago.   Not far from the HoF, buddy found a sushi bar.   Being a W. PA boy, I warned him that the sushi could be from Lake Erie or the Cuyahoga.    He was unfazed.

[NJ Ave]

I live in Petworth and while the development here and in Columbia Heights is impressive, it’s nowhere near the level of the area around the park. I definitely think the stadium accelerated growth.

Anywhere there was existing land in the city, the development has been the same. To the extent that it's not as pervasive in Petworth and Columbia Heights, that's because you couldn't demolish every existing structure the way you could around the ballpark. NoMa is a better example of a wasteland, and it looks the same as the ballpark area.

I mean look at the SW Waterfront.

[Natsinpwc]

Rock and Roll HOF is a must.

We did the R&R HOF today. It was great. A must see as you noted. We walked around some downtown and dropped by the Casino to donate some $ to them. We ended the afternoon by Edgewater Park on Lake Erie. Very nice. 

[dracnal]

Lake Erie. Very nice.

Uh, huh?

[Natsinpwc]

Uh, huh?

People were swimming in it.

Waiting for a free ticket to tonight's Cavs game. 

[mitlen]

We did the R&R HOF today. It was great. A must see as you noted. We walked around some downtown and dropped by the Casino to donate some $ to them. We ended the afternoon by Edgewater Park on Lake Erie. Very nice. 

I think it's on the 2nd or 3rd level but there's a little cafe/bar in the HoF that overlooks the lake and the airport.   Pretty cool.     When did Cleveland get a casino?     Must have been there before that thing.   

[RobDibblesGhost]

Atlanta and now Arizona leaving downtown stadiums built in the 1990's for new suburban digs. Is this going to become a trend?

Globe Life Park (Texas Rangers) opened in 1994 and its replacement with the the same name will open in 2020 pretty much across the street. Their big reasoning was wanting a retractable roof due to the heat and frequent rain delays.

[Natsinpwc]

Here is a report based on my visit to Progressive Field in Cleveland a few weeks ago.  Still known as the Jake to the locals.

We were able to see the Tribe get to take on the Astros so it was nice to see the defending champions and especially Jose Altuve, one of my favorite ball players.  We went on the Thursday night before Memorial Day; could have gone the following night but prices were higher and Friday was also the night of the NBA Eastern Finals game 6.  Quicken Loans Arena is right next to the ballpark so figured traffic would be a mess.  We sat in section 154.  Tickets on Stub Hub cost $59 each--quite reasonable I thought.  It's nice that some of these stadiums have seats in the first level behind home plate that don't cost hundreds of dollars.  No pics but the view in the link below is close to what we saw.  It's Row AA and we were in Row X--also we were closer to the middle of the field as we had seats 1 and 2 in that row.

https://aviewfrommyseat.com/photo/72536/Progressive+Field/section-154/row-AA/seat-13/

The ballpark had kind of a small feel to it probably because of the buildings around it.  Nothing else super special but I liked the set up of the concessions behind the home plate area.  Some of them are right there before you reach the main concourse so less walking.  We had brats and beer--can't go wrong with that.  Some of the ballpark security seemed grumpy.  I chalked it up to the winter weather and being Browns fans.

For the game itself, we saw a matchup of Charlie Morton versus Mike Clevinger.  The next night was Keuchel versus Kluber--that would have been fun.  Morton really has quite a curveball.  The wife asked if Clevinger was a woman when he took the field for the first pitch--told her he would be a really unattractive woman.  The Indians took the lead but the Astros won 8-2; they pounded the Indians pen.  Francona was booed when he made pitching changes.  What have you done for me lately I suppose. 

All in all a nice place to visit for Nats fans in future years for those of you who plan to go. 

We of course checked out the Rock and Roll HOF--it's awesome and worth the price of admission.  We bought tickets at the door--I believe you save a couple of bucks if you buy on line.  I would definitely go back as there was more to see than time allowed.  We walked around downtown some and wandered through the Jack casino dropping $20 at the slots in short order. The weather was beautiful and we went to Edgewater Park (see link below) which is on the Lake just west of downtown.  Overall an enjoyable 2-day trip.  We left Cleveland and headed back to Northern VA--on the way we stopped in Pittsburgh and walked around by the river near the stadium area.  Didn't get a chance to see a game there but it's on the list.
 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g50207-d6522453-Reviews-Edgewater_Park-Cleveland_Ohio.html

[imref]

awesome, thanks for sharing!

[mitlen]

We of course checked out the Rock and Roll HOF--it's awesome and worth the price of admission.  We bought tickets at the door--I believe you save a couple of bucks if you buy on line.  I would definitely go back as there was more to see than time allowed. 

Nice review  ...