Where to find...

[mitlen]

Yep. (re: #3)

One sentence.         That's the one "rule" I try to live by on this site.    I try not to use "you" or "your" in a sentence (unless I'm highly pissed) or bein' a wise guy.     When someone writes, "You  ...." or "Your point  ....", it's a "call out" IMHO and the gloves are off.   I don't always succeed but that's where I try to have my boundary.     Other than that, have at it.

May I add something I may have written before  ...  Pops told me, "You can call somebody a SOB two different ways.    You can call 'em a SOB and have to fight 'em or you can call 'em a SOB in a way that they don't realize it 'til they're half way home."

[_sturt_]

One sentence.         That's the one "rule" I try to live by on this site.    I try not to use "you" or "your" in a sentence (unless I'm highly pissed) or bein' a wise guy.     When someone writes, "You  ...." or "Your point  ....", it's a "call out" IMHO and the gloves are off.   I don't always succeed but that's where I try to have my boundary.     Other than that, have at it.

So... being careful with my words here... (hehe)... that could be taken to mean that there is disagreement with one or more of the five "guidelines" I'd offered... ???

I'm glad you posted that, btw.... ie, the "you" thing... I'd never even thought about it here, though in professional life, that's a rule I too try to keep in mind.

All honesty, I'll try to be careful/considerate when we discuss x, y or z, since you've said that outright. But I'd be curious to know if anyone else feels that way... I personally don't, but maybe I'm an outlier on that and had no idea. To me, this is much less formal than a professional context, and it just feels more awkward/formal to adopt that rule for my writing for anyone and everyone... and certainly don't expect it of others to not use "you" in referring to me.

[mitlen]

So... being careful with my words here... (hehe)... that could be taken to mean that there is disagreement with one or more of the five "guidelines" I'd offered... ???

I'm glad you posted that, btw.... ie, the "you" thing... I'd never even thought about it here, though in professional life, that's a rule I too try to keep in mind.

Not my intent about anything you offered.    I'm old and I'd forget half that stuff so I keep it simple (KISS principle).     

The "you" thing is another of those old customer service mantras.     The use of "you" can sound/look accusatory  ...  even unintentionally.    It's like verbally pointing/wagging your finger at somebody.

[GburgNatsFan]

Just keep the wagging at finger wagging.

Not my intent about anything you offered.    I'm old and I'd forget half that stuff so I keep it simple (KISS principle).     

The "you" thing is another of those old customer service mantras.     The use of "you" can sound/look accusatory  ...  even unintentionally.    It's like verbally pointing/wagging your finger at somebody.

[Natsinpwc]

You can "attack"/question a position without "attacking" the individual who submitted it.

"What you said is really dumb. But I still value your input."  I think I learned that in management training.

[_sturt_]

Not my intent about anything you offered.    I'm old and I'd forget half that stuff so I keep it simple (KISS principle).     

The "you" thing is another of those old customer service mantras.     The use of "you" can sound/look accusatory  ...  even unintentionally.    It's like verbally pointing/wagging your finger at somebody.

[mitlen]

"What you said is really dumb. But I still value your input."  I think I learned that in management training.

I know folks who wouldn't even hear/read the second half of the comment.    They would immediately respond with an old Western Pennsylvania idiom that has "you" in it.*     

*  might have a finger point for emphasis

I hope this isn't a dumb analogy but it's mine and I wear it.     Driving to see my sister in the Pittsburgh area, I often take the turnpike for part of that trip.    For those who have drivin' on the PA Turnpike, you know what a white knuckle experience that can be.    I sometime find myself in the fast lane playing crazy "games" with trucks, snow, rain, night conditions, speedin'/in a hurry, etc.    I get "caught up in it".    Every once in a while, I come to my senses and think, "What the hell are you doin'?    This is nuts."     I like to think I can occasionally self censor myself on the WNFF Turnpike as well (VaRK calls it "ninja".)  ...   without "rules".     On those rare occasions I cross the boundary, the State Police (Chief, JCA, TT, etc.) pull me over and give me a ticket.         

[Mathguy]

Instead of "is really dumb" how about "doesn't seem right" ?

"What you said is really dumb. But I still value your input."  I think I learned that in management training.

[_sturt_]

I know folks who wouldn't even hear/read the second half of the comment.    They would immediately respond with an old Western Pennsylvania idiom that has "you" in it.*     

*  might have a finger point for emphasis

I hope this isn't a dumb analogy but it's mine and I wear it.     Driving to see my sister in the Pittsburgh area, I often take the turnpike for part of that trip.    For those who have drivin' on the PA Turnpike, you know what a white knuckle experience that can be.    I sometime find myself in the fast lane playing crazy "games" with trucks, snow, rain, night conditions, speedin'/in a hurry, etc.    I get "caught up in it".    Every once in a while, I come to my senses and think, "What the hell are you doin'?    This is nuts."     I like to think I can occasionally self censor myself on the WNFF Turnpike as well (VaRK calls it "ninja".)  ...   without "rules".     On those rare occasions I cross the boundary, the State Police (Chief, JCA, TT, etc.) pull me over and give me a ticket.       

Forgive me just this once...

You... ...do that.

Most of us do (ie, rein ourselves in) most of the time, I think.

But what happened that inspired this thread had everything to do with #5... and while that's not an offense that most here seem to have any problem with (in my experience anyhow), I'd hope the point is well-taken that it sure wouldn't hurt to have had that one to raise with the handful of certain posters who might just not have thought it through to realize that's a problem.

(From where I sit, the others #1-#4 also come up every now and then, though.)

[Natsinpwc]

Instead of "is really dumb" how about "doesn't seem right" ?

I might have flunked the training.

[mitlen]

I might have flunked the training.

[mitlen]

5. If you're not interested in a topic, that's okay. Doesn't mean that others have no right to be interested in it, and to pursue it. And consequently, they shouldn't be subjected to your ridicule for being interested and participating in it. Click on it the first time, and if you think it's a nothing topic and you have no interest to contribute, be respectful enough to walk away. Don't be that guy who pisses on others' discussions, and comes across as the 7th grade attention seeker.

Agree

[Natsinpwc]

I supervised people for 30 years. I was actually very nice to people. Probably too nice. At the last training I went back in the 2000s we had to get feedback from the staff and mine was way higher than the group I was in. Some of them told me I must have paid them to get that feedback. Of course many of them got further ahead than I did. Reminds me of my first supervisor who told me the pricks get ahead. Most of us say lots of things on here we would never say in person. The Internet is better than alcohol for reducing inhibitions.

[mitlen]

I supervised people for 30 years. I was actually very nice to people. Probably too nice. At the last training I went back in the 2000s we had to get feedback from the staff and mine was way higher than the group I was in. Some of them told me I must have paid them to get that feedback. Of course many of them got further ahead than I did. Reminds me of my first supervisor who told me the pricks get ahead. Most of us say lots of things on here we would never say in person. The Internet is better than alcohol for reducing inhibitions.

I supervised people for almost 20 years and I didn't have the problems you faced.            

[Natsinpwc]

I supervised people for almost 20 years and I didn't have the problems you faced.            

Most of the time I had really good people. Just a few troublemakers. Mostly I ignored them.

[mitlen]

Most of the time I had really good people. Just a few troublemakers. Mostly I ignored them.

I tell folks I was the highest paid day care provider in the city.    I think a lot of our style (supervisory) comes from our background (doh).    Most of my expectations came from bosses I had in the mill, NCOs in the Army and my old man.    There wasn't a lot of (excuse the expression) touchy/feely  "what's on your mind" approach.    I reflected that.    I tried to incorporate 20th century management styles with varying degrees of success.

[Natsinpwc]

I tell folks I was the highest paid day care provider in the city.    I think a lot of our style (supervisory) comes from our background (doh).    Most of my expectations came from bosses I had in the mill, NCOs in the Army and my old man.    There wasn't a lot of (excuse the expression) touchy/feely  "what's on your mind" approach.    I reflected that.    I tried to work in the 20th century management style with varying degrees of success.

Yea. My old man was a quiet one. Didn't lose his temper often. Like you said you get your style from that and others you like to work for. Worked the first half of my career at GAO. Not too many slackers. Probably the opposite problem of too Smart and trying to do too much.

[The Chief]

Most of what's been covered in this topic already is fairly on-point.  I'll add my two cents:

The golden rule is "If you make too much trouble for me you're gonna get the hammer."

Next time I have to break up a pissing contest or slapfight there will likely be warnings/mutes for all involved.  Everyone from yesterday's fiasco is old enough to know better and has been here long enough to know better.

[Minty Fresh]

You can "attack"/question a position without "attacking" the individual who submitted it. 

And when the individual who's position is being questioned reacts with condescension?

[mitlen]

Most of what's been covered in this topic already is fairly on-point.  I'll add my two cents:

The golden rule is "If you make too much trouble for me you're gonna get the hammer."

Next time I have to break up a pissing contest or slapfight there will likely be warnings/mutes for all involved.  Everyone from yesterday's fiasco is old enough to know better and has been here long enough to know better.

I don't recall yesterday's brooh hah hah/fiasco.     Where was it?     Have you nixed it?    I didn't get "hammered" so I'm guessin' I wasn't in it.         

[mitlen]

And when the individual who's position is being questioned reacts with condescension?

I abhor condescension.    Gets my back up.    Dismissiveness is almost as bad.

(might be the same difference)

[mitlen]

Yea. My old man was a quiet one. Didn't lose his temper often. Like you said you get your style from that and others you like to work for. Worked the first half of my career at GAO. Not too many slackers. Probably the opposite problem of too Smart and trying to do too much.

My dad was sometime wrong but he was never in doubt.