Author Topic: Crossed fingers for a [s]Melancon return[/s] ZEIGLER signing  (Read 2345 times)

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Offline _sturt_

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Am I alone in that?


Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #1: December 03, 2016, 11:23:28 PM »
I would rather have Chapman or Jansen.  If not Melancon will do.

Offline _sturt_

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #2: December 03, 2016, 11:30:59 PM »
Think he's the perfect fit in every way, including financially.

I'm one of those who thinks you never sink too big a hunk of your budget in the biggest money closers.

Offline mmzznnxx

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #3: December 04, 2016, 12:02:11 AM »
I want Melancon back but that's just too much.

Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #4: December 04, 2016, 09:39:51 AM »
Think he's the perfect fit in every way, including financially.

I'm one of those who thinks you never sink too big a hunk of your budget in the biggest money closers.

60 million is fairly big chunk IMO

Offline _sturt_

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #5: December 04, 2016, 10:40:58 AM »
Sure it is.

But, assuming the reports have it right, its not 90 m... and, potentially as importantly, its not 5 years.

And truth is, history says even the reported numbers turn out to be lower than expected.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #6: December 04, 2016, 10:44:52 AM »
I like Melancon, but 4 years and 60+ is not a worthwhile investment. I just can't imagine giving that kind of money to a guy who on the wrong side of 30 and has put up elite numbers with ho hum stuff. The uncertainty of ground balls turning into outs will always be an issue with the guy, and I think you absolutely need the high end strikeout artist at the back of the pen to give that kind of money to him.

Heck, Papeldouche had stellar numbers when he signed his deal with the Phillies and that turned out to be a disaster. There is a chance Melancon could be Mariano, but there is a better chance that he turns out to be Jeff Montgomery, or at least so says his BRef page. That same page also lists him with Joakim Soria, Greg Holland, Cody Allen, Kenley Jansen (those last two are funny honestly) and THE CHIEF CHAD CORDERO.

Offline Squab

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #7: December 04, 2016, 10:52:49 AM »
So I think I'm against signing Melancon to that giant deal.

You could go and get Joe Blanton for 2 years/14M, Greg Holland on a one year deal, maybe Brad Ziegler/Sergio Romo on a 2/18. Then go and acquire a free agent to be like Wade Davis or Jake McGee at the deadline. Or someone with more control like Nate Jones. I wouldn't mind seeing a Jerry Blevins reunion either, but that seems unlikely based on how they parted.

I guess I'd rather take that giant pot of bullpen money and diversify, rather than putting all the eggs in that one risky basket.


Online Slateman

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #8: December 04, 2016, 10:59:23 AM »
So I think I'm against signing Melancon to that giant deal.

You could go and get Joe Blanton for 2 years/14M, Greg Holland on a one year deal, maybe Brad Ziegler/Sergio Romo on a 2/18. Then go and acquire a free agent to be like Wade Davis or Jake McGee at the deadline. Or someone with more control like Nate Jones. I wouldn't mind seeing a Jerry Blevins reunion either, but that seems unlikely based on how they parted.

I guess I'd rather take that giant pot of bullpen money and diversify, rather than putting all the eggs in that one risky basket.



But then what do we do about (potentially) needing another starting pitcher and (definitely) needing another OFer?

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #9: December 04, 2016, 11:04:58 AM »
So I think I'm against signing Melancon to that giant deal.

You could go and get Joe Blanton for 2 years/14M, Greg Holland on a one year deal, maybe Brad Ziegler/Sergio Romo on a 2/18. Then go and acquire a free agent to be like Wade Davis or Jake McGee at the deadline. Or someone with more control like Nate Jones.

I guess I'd rather take that giant pot of bullpen money and diversify, rather than putting all the eggs in that one risky basket.

I'm not seeing why the Nats shouldn't spend big for a closer. They still have solid pitchers in Kelley, Solis, and Treinen. They are stuck with Perez and have some internal possibilities with Gott and Glover. There are ways to fit a better long man and/or another lefty while still pursuing a top end closer.

Online aspenbubba

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #10: December 04, 2016, 11:08:40 AM »
But then what do we do about (potentially) needing another starting pitcher and (definitely) needing another OFer?
Separate issue. No correlation . But I do want a OF and a starter and Revere back on a pillow contract.

Online Slateman

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #11: December 04, 2016, 11:25:47 AM »
Separate issue. No correlation . But I do want a OF and a starter and Revere back on a pillow contract.
All connected. We can't trade for someone to fill every hole we need. Payroll isn't an issue. There are two elite closers and two very good ones on the market this year. The trade price for an elite closer at the deadline is going to be absurd. Pay money now.

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #12: December 04, 2016, 11:26:43 AM »
Sign me up for Ziegler. I always loved that guy. Let him do while Glover gets his feet wet setting him up

Offline _sturt_

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #13: December 04, 2016, 11:40:57 AM »
I wanted Ziegler this past summer. He'd be a useful piece even if eventually supplanted by Glover or someone else. Depending on how pricey Melancon ends up, I could definitely be persuaded to prefer that option.

What puts the brakes on Melancon for me is that there are very few closers who prove themselves worthy of a 4 year contract on the other side of 30, so that point is well-taken. This, more than for any other role on the team, presents one of those situations that I'd rather front load the contract, and pay him a big number this year, and see that reduce by some amount each year.

Offline Squab

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #14: December 04, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »
But then what do we do about (potentially) needing another starting pitcher and (definitely) needing another OFer?

I don't think trading for Cutch would preclude you from acquiring a closer later. We also just let a decent outfielder go over six lousy million of "just money" (mostly trolling).

Im not super sold on the need for another starter, but I see where you're coming from.

Online Slateman

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #15: December 04, 2016, 12:44:44 PM »
I don't think trading for Cutch would preclude you from acquiring a closer later. We also just let a decent outfielder go over six lousy million of "just money" (mostly trolling).

Im not super sold on the need for another starter, but I see where you're coming from.

Who starts when Strasburg and Ross go down? Do we hope Lopez and Giolito figure it out?

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #16: December 04, 2016, 12:51:06 PM »
I wanted Ziegler this past summer. He'd be a useful piece even if eventually supplanted by Glover or someone else. Depending on how pricey Melancon ends up, I could definitely be persuaded to prefer that option.

What puts the brakes on Melancon for me is that there are very few closers who prove themselves worthy of a 4 year contract on the other side of 30, so that point is well-taken. This, more than for any other role on the team, presents one of those situations that I'd rather front load the contract, and pay him a big number this year, and see that reduce by some amount each year.
Yup they all burn out after 5-6 years. Unless they have great movement which he has so I might be persuaded, but the #s being thrown around hell no.

I am for the Zeigler option now

Offline Squab

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #17: December 04, 2016, 01:24:00 PM »
Who starts when Strasburg and Ross go down? Do we hope Lopez and Giolito figure it out?

Yeah your two top 100 prospects, probably. Otherwise you've got some others in the pipe like Voth or Latos last year. I guess you could go find a fifth starter and use Ross in the pen. But it seems a tall order to go find a good starter better than what we have now, at a reasonable price and keep your current depth. Best you could do is a Rich Hill type thing probably.

Offline _sturt_

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #18: December 04, 2016, 05:28:49 PM »
Yup they all burn out after 5-6 years. Unless they have great movement which he has so I might be persuaded, but the #s being thrown around hell no.

I am for the Zeigler option now

I'd have to be persuaded that we have a situation where our future closer is practically indisputably already on the 40-man, and only needing a half-year of seasoning. We're too close to the top of the mountain. None of us know what budget Rizzo has been given, of course, but if we can lock-in that degree of certainty in the bullpen for $15m/yr, I vote "yes."

Online Slateman

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #19: December 04, 2016, 05:31:42 PM »
I'd have to be persuaded that we have a situation where our future closer is practically indisputably already on the 40-man, and only needing a half-year of seasoning. We're too close to the top of the mountain. None of us know what budget Rizzo has been given, of course, but if we can lock-in that degree of certainty in the bullpen for $15m/yr, I vote "yes."
No one is going to persuade you of tthat. But do we really want to pay 60 million for, maybe, two good years? I'm much more interested in paying more for Jansen, with the belief that you're going to get 3-5 years out of him.

Offline _sturt_

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #20: December 04, 2016, 05:36:49 PM »
If you believe that.

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #21: December 04, 2016, 05:47:30 PM »
Word is it may even be 64mil over 4 years by the Giants.

Online varoadking

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #22: December 04, 2016, 05:59:37 PM »
Word is it may even be 64mil over 4 years by the Giants.

Rizzo was out of this before it even began.  He has a budget.

Offline OvechkinsWodka

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #23: December 04, 2016, 06:04:05 PM »
16 mill a season seems a bit rich for 60 innings pitched a season

Offline dshawg77

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Re: Crossed fingers for a Melancon return
« Reply #24: December 04, 2016, 06:04:14 PM »
Word is it may even be 64mil over 4 years by the Giants.

Crap. What's option B?