NHL 2016 - 2018 (non-Capitals)

[Slateman]

It would seem that McPhee wasnt the problem in DC

[UMDNats]

It would seem that McPhee wasnt the problem in DC

He absolutely was, giving him credit for being some genius is ridiculous. He had the league by the balls this summer. He didn't do anything really that any other GM wouldn't have done in his shoes. Does he get credit for drafting MAF? Schmidt? Marchessault, Karlsson, Theodore? All guys given up to him without little effort. He got gifted a great coach because Florida decided to be idiots (I wish he made a hire like this when he was in DC). He built a team for speed and aggression and that was a complete 180 from how he drafted and roster-built in DC.

He spent 17 years in DC and got one Cup final - 0 with the greatest goal scorer of our generation leading the way. He freaked around with coaching hires, took years to adjust drafting strategy, was loyal to a fault to players, and ignored roster issues and cap management issues for years. He traded Forsberg for Martin Erat.

Leonsis, at the end of the day, is the biggest issue, but GMGM has his hands all over the Caps' failures. Somehow drafting a team that gets to the SCF in year one doesn't mean he's all of the sudden the GOAT.

He's a good GM who had a great situation and has done a good job. It looks like he learned from his mistakes here.

[Slateman]

He's a good GM who had a great situation and has done a good job. It looks like he learned from his mistakes here.

So you agree then that McPhee wasnt the problem.

You can say what you want about Las Vegas, but no one would have even suggested this outcome six months ago.

[UMDNats]

So you agree then that McPhee wasnt the problem.

You can say what you want about Las Vegas, but no one would have even suggested this outcome six months ago.

He's a good GM who still was part of the problem.

At least half the GMs in the NHL are incompetent buffoons. It's not a high bar.

[imref]

Vegas is making this playoff thing look easy.  I assume that they will be the favorite regardless of who they face in the finals.

[varoadking]

If Vegas wins...the value of the Stanley Cup is greatly diminished...forever.  They will have simply bought it...

[imref]

If Vegas wins...the value of the Stanley Cup is greatly diminished...forever.  They will have simply bought it...

How so? 

[varoadking]

How so?

They paid $500MM to the NHL for a very competitive roster and a likely Hall of Fame goalie.  No other expansion team in history was "gifted" such a roster...

Greedy Owners agreed to this, so I don't blame Bettman solely...

They are about to do it again, too...

[imref]

They paid $500MM to the NHL for a very competitive roster and a likely Hall of Fame goalie.  No other expansion team in history was "gifted" such a roster...

Greedy Owners agreed to this, so I don't blame Bettman solely...

They are about to do it again, too...

I remember reading analysis ranging from "the knights will be ok" to "the knights will be lucky to win 8 games" after the expansion draft.  McPhee has also stockpiled a ton of draft picks IIRC from teams that worked out deals with him to protect players they didn't want to lose.  IMHO, he did an extremely impressive job building this team.  Remember that Fluery had lost the starting job in Pittsburgh.

[varoadking]

I remember reading analysis ranging from "the knights will be ok" to "the knights will be lucky to win 8 games" after the expansion draft.  McPhee has also stockpiled a ton of draft picks IIRC from teams that worked out deals with him to protect players they didn't want to lose.  IMHO, he did an extremely impressive job building this team.  Remember that Fluery had lost the starting job in Pittsburgh.

GMGM fell in a pile of crap and came up smelling like roses...

I could have "assembled" his team...didn't take a genius...took someone who could simply play checkers...

[UMDNats]

I remember reading analysis ranging from "the knights will be ok" to "the knights will be lucky to win 8 games" after the expansion draft.  McPhee has also stockpiled a ton of draft picks IIRC from teams that worked out deals with him to protect players they didn't want to lose.  IMHO, he did an extremely impressive job building this team.  Remember that Fluery had lost the starting job in Pittsburgh.

The consensus was that Vegas had a solid team with some potential, likely 10th-11th place in the West but competitive. They had to do little work to get a team of 2nd-and-3rd liners, many of which had potential. McPhee didn't have to "work out" deals with teams, the teams basically said "what will it take for us to keep [player X]?" Hell, the Caps freaked up by leaving Schmidt unprotected but McPhee basically told GMBM "I'm going to get either Wilson, Grubauer, Schmidt or Johansson for free - pick which one it is." And the Caps gave him their worst player of that bunch, which turned out to be a young defensemen just beginning to emerge as a solid all-around player who just needed more ice time.

And Fluery only lost the job in Pittsburgh because Murray emerged and was younger and healthier. Fluery had some crappy playoff series' but no expansion team has ever been dealt a hand so good. That is an indisputable fact.

That they're here is a surprise for sure (it basically took best-case-scenario level stuff) but to say that McPhee is a genius builder and that the team was "lucky to win 8 games" is a complete lie. Don't forget that McPhee's "big trade" was giving up a bunch of draft picks for Tomas Tatar, who is currently a healthy scratch.

[Natsinpwc]

They paid $500MM to the NHL for a very competitive roster and a likely Hall of Fame goalie.  No other expansion team in history was "gifted" such a roster...

Greedy Owners agreed to this, so I don't blame Bettman solely...

They are about to do it again, too...

Fleury had lost his job to Matt Murray.    you have noted some of Holtby's bad games this playoff. Go check out some of Fleury's playoff save percentages in recent years. If he is in the HOF it will be from the good fortune of playing with Crosby and Malkin. Those guys erase lots of goalie mistakes.

The bottom line is each team was able to protect their top guys. The guys they drafted were all third and fourth line. It's a great job by the GM AND especially the coach. Next year they will likely fall back to mediocrity.

[Natsinpwc]

The consensus was that Vegas had a solid team with some potential, likely 10th-11th place in the West but competitive. They had to do little work to get a team of 2nd-and-3rd liners, many of which had potential. McPhee didn't have to "work out" deals with teams, the teams basically said "what will it take for us to keep [player X]?" Hell, the Caps freaked up by leaving Schmidt unprotected but McPhee basically told GMBM "I'm going to get either Wilson, Grubauer, Schmidt or Johansson for free - pick which one it is."

And Fluery only lost the job in Pittsburgh because Murray emerged and was younger and healthier. Fluery had some crappy playoff series' but no expansion team has ever been dealt a hand so good. That is an indisputable fact.

That they're here is a surprise for sure (it basically took best-case-scenario level stuff) but to say that McPhee is a genius builder and that the team was "lucky to win 8 games" is a complete lie. Don't forget that McPhee's "big trade" was giving up a bunch of draft picks for Tomas Tatar, who is currently a healthy scratch.

So why did Fleury have all those terrible playoffs in recent years and be so great this year? Goalie coach maybe??

[Natsinpwc]

In any event Vegas will go down in flames against the Caps in the finals.

[Natsinpwc]

https://www.si.com/nhl/2018/05/16/dave-prior-marc-andre-fleury-vegas-golden-knights-playoffs

GM gets credit for hiring the right coaches also.

[UMDNats]

So why did Fleury have all those terrible playoffs in recent years and be so great this year? Goalie coach maybe??

There's no doubt that MAF had, in reality, lost his job due to some crap playoff years. But the guy had won a Cup in Pittsburgh and while his last year in Pitt was bad, he was a consistent beast for years before that. Expansion teams don't get a goaltender with a recent Cup on his resume and one year removed from a 2.30 GAA/.930 SV% season. He's been amazing this postseason, better than anyone could expect, but it's not like Vegas got some over-the-hill turd like most expansion teams get.

https://www.si.com/nhl/2018/05/16/dave-prior-marc-andre-fleury-vegas-golden-knights-playoffs

GM gets credit for hiring the right coaches also.

Adam Oates firing Dave Prior was so, so idiotic.

[varoadking]

Fleury had lost his job to Matt Murray.    you have noted some of Holtby's bad games this playoff. Go check out some of Fleury's playoff save percentages in recent years. If he is in the HOF it will be from the good fortune of playing with Crosby and Malkin. Those guys erase lots of goalie mistakes.

The bottom line is each team was able to protect their top guys. The guys they drafted were all third and fourth line. It's a great job by the GM AND especially the coach. Next year they will likely fall back to mediocrity.

Look at his record in these playoffs...he isn't playing with Crosby and Malkin now...

Of all the goalies available in the expansion draft...who would you have chosen?

GMGM got the luck of the new expansion draft format.  Nothing more...nothing less.  The man is an idiot...

[Slateman]

GMGM got the luck of the new expansion draft format.  Nothing more...nothing less.  The man is an idiot...

And yet he wasn't as stupid as leaving Marcus Johansson and Lars Eller protected and not protecting Nate Schmidt.

[varoadking]

And yet he wasn't as stupid as leaving Marcus Johansson and Lars Eller protected and not protecting Nate Schmidt.

You could only protect 3 D-men.  Those 2 are forwards...

[Slateman]

You could only protect 3 D-men.  Those 2 are forwards...

Then let someone else go besides your top, young, cost controlled defenseman.\

Idiotic move is idiotic. As has been keeping Ovechkin and Backstrom this long.

[Natsinpwc]

I will be back to update this when he wins GM of the year.   

[varoadking]

I will be back to update this when he wins GM of the year.   

Low bar...

[Natsinpwc]

Low bar...

I'm tasting bitter.  And salt.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

umami

I'm tasting bitter.  And salt.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I saw the Rangers named BU's coach, Dave Quinn, to be their new head coach.  Quinn has been pretty good, took his team to the championship game only to lose to Providence on one of the softest goals in history, but he's not dominant in his Hockey East.