Unpopular Nationals Opinions

[Natsinpwc]

I’m not sure what your point is. The Nats said they want to build around Soto. They aren’t taking steps to build around him in time.

Shedding fandom, there is an element of baseball that is asset collection. The Nats wasted an off-season collecting very few valuable assets. I didn’t think the Nats would be competitive this year, but they did little to improve their positioning for future years.

Cruz and Hernandez are both trade chips.  There are not that many guys around who might be trade chips and will take a one year contract.  Can you identify any others we missed?  Schwarber was obviously not taking a one year deal.  Maybe they can get Conforto?

My general point is that some of you guys are constantly whining like little b****** and need to stop acting like you are entitled to have a winning team each year. Rizzo won a title so let's give him another year or two to see if he can turn it around.  They are building--just not fast enough for some of you.

Need to wait and see what Strasburg has left.  Kieboom and Robles look like busts which hurts.  Need to hope House can get there soon as well as Cavalli and then start signing free agents to fill gaps after next season.  If Adams and Ruiz both can hit the former might be a good trade peice to get pitching.  The Soto issue is the big question mark? If they lock him up might help attract some free agents. 

[PowerBoater69]

That's just it.  The idea of a rebuild isn't the end of the world, but if poorly executed, you are looking at a long dark period.  It's much easier to stay at the top than it is too climb to the top.  That's why I feel like we too easily gave up the high ground.

I'm not sure if I agree, it's not easy to stay at the top when the team that won was made up of a combination of aging players and young guys in line for big raises. What I reject is that it is necessary to tank to rebuild. The Nats currently have $70 million in cap space, they should have kept to the 2021 plan and used it to sign mid-level guys to short term deals. Make a run for that third wild card or failing that sell them off.

But getting back to how do they get fans into the ballpark to see a losing team, the Nats are heading to a far lower average attendance than they ever had during The Plan years. It seems like they have gutted their promotional staff.

[English Natsie]

As last night was the first run out for the (IMO) dire blossoms, will it now be forever regarded as the 'Shutout Shirt'?... At least we passed that milestone pretty quickly. 

[Slateman]

The Lerners and/or Rizzo are playing a dangerous game.  They have overestimated the loyalty of our "fan base." A long period of sucking, as it appears we are heading towards, will crush this fan base to pre-2005 levels.  It's too bad we never got the bump from the World Series, but IMO the rebuild was a hasty decision that will be regretted.

Except they'll still be profitable, so the Lerners dont care. And if/when this team starts winning, the fans will come back in droves. DC is the ultimate bandwagon town. If you win, they'll hitch up.

[English Natsie]

More cats...  

[JCA-CrystalCity]

The narrative here that the Nats hid anything is kind of amusing. Only a few delusional fans thought they were going to sign guys and try and be competitive this year.  If you signed for season tickets thinking this was anything other than a tank season that’s on you.

While a few still say, "we never should have traded Turner and Scherzer," I don't think there was anything wrong with the signings and deals last year.  Signing multiple guys short term was a sound strategy.  I kind of liked the "high beta" approach of having a potential contender if thinks break right or having tradeable assets if they don't.  Putting Trea and Max aside, the other deals netted a decent backup catcher right away (adams) and a well regarded one in the minors (Millas), a deeper minors potential starting pitcher who already has some success (Ramirez), hard throwing bullpen pieces (Thompson), and 4th outfielder / second division corner OF (Thomas).  That's a nice haul even before you get to Ruiz, Gray, Carrillo, and Casey.

We weren't going to go into this year with Scherzer at the top of the rotation, but with the big array of SS, as well as Bryant and others available we could have put a long-term 2nd piece in place along with Soto.  It's bad faith to drop to $130 million payroll in this market.  There were any number of short-term signings that could have been done to recreate the possibility of contending that could also be flippable. Think of how we'd fell if it were Harrison at 3rd, a real shortstop signed longish term (like Semien), as well as Cesar H at 2nd? I/M/O, the only thing close to deadline trade material would be Bell, Cruz, and maybe some of the bullpen vets.

[English Natsie]

Although rough on the STH's, perhaps something radical is needed? During the 'no-hoper' series (for example, the D-Backs) one game could be made available at a flat rate of, say, five bucks for any seat (except those behind home plate) - it could be marketed as a 'discover / rediscover baseball' game.

[PowerBoater69]

Although rough on the STH's, perhaps something radical is needed? During the 'no-hoper' series (for example, the D-Backs) one game could be made available at a flat rate of, say, five bucks for any seat (except those behind home plate) - it could be marketed as a 'discover / rediscover baseball' game.

Not sure if even $5 tickets will bring in that many new fans before the schools get out. For the D-Backs series I'd concentrate on just getting the SPH to show up. Offer better bonuses for attending games, an autographed baseball for every ten Ballpark check-ins. Costs the team nothing and there are a large number of fans who would come to a few extra games to hit the 10, 20, and 30 game milestones. Have them signed by the players in the club lounge, used to be there was more player availability, before the Werth years.

For the casual fans I'd have the racing presidents and Screech at Metro stations every weekday and little league ballparks every weekend. Hand out a dozen free flower hats and have a Nats Pack member handing out coupon books to everyone else who shows up.

Not complicated.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

It is somehow fitting that we are following a "predator satiation" strategy following a Brood X year. 

[Natsinpwc]

I'm not sure if I agree, it's not easy to stay at the top when the team that won was made up of a combination of aging players and young guys in line for big raises. What I reject is that it is necessary to tank to rebuild. The Nats currently have $70 million in cap space, they should have kept to the 2021 plan and used it to sign mid-level guys to short term deals. Make a run for that third wild card or failing that sell them off.

But getting back to how do they get fans into the ballpark to see a losing team, the Nats are heading to a far lower average attendance than they ever had during The Plan years. It seems like they have gutted their promotional staff.

I’m with ya but who else would you have signed to short term deals? They did so with Cruz and Hernandez and Franco.  Not many good players taking one year deals. I would take a flyer on Conforto depending on how serious his injury is.

[Kevrock]

My general point is that some of you guys are constantly whining like little b****** and need to stop acting like you are entitled to have a winning team each year.

 Worry about yourself.

[Kevrock]

While a few still say, "we never should have traded Turner and Scherzer," I don't think there was anything wrong with the signings and deals last year.  Signing multiple guys short term was a sound strategy.  I kind of liked the "high beta" approach of having a potential contender if thinks break right or having tradeable assets if they don't.  Putting Trea and Max aside, the other deals netted a decent backup catcher right away (adams) and a well regarded one in the minors (Millas), a deeper minors potential starting pitcher who already has some success (Ramirez), hard throwing bullpen pieces (Thompson), and 4th outfielder / second division corner OF (Thomas).  That's a nice haul even before you get to Ruiz, Gray, Carrillo, and Casey.

We weren't going to go into this year with Scherzer at the top of the rotation, but with the big array of SS, as well as Bryant and others available we could have put a long-term 2nd piece in place along with Soto.  It's bad faith to drop to $130 million payroll in this market.  There were any number of short-term signings that could have been done to recreate the possibility of contending that could also be flippable. Think of how we'd fell if it were Harrison at 3rd, a real shortstop signed longish term (like Semien), as well as Cesar H at 2nd? I/M/O, the only thing close to deadline trade material would be Bell, Cruz, and maybe some of the bullpen vets.

Agreed, JCA

[PowerBoater69]

I’m with ya but who else would you have signed to short term deals? They did so with Cruz and Hernandez and Franco.  Not many good players taking one year deals. I would take a flyer on Conforto depending on how serious his injury is.

Valid question, I don't follow the league closely enough to respond without looking up the free agent lists. My response would be that with $70 million available after signing Cruz and Cishek there had to be more guys available, even if we had to do 2-3 years.

I wonder what this roster construction says about the team's confidence in Strasburg. If they thought that #37 was going to return as good as ever wouldn't they have spent to build around him and Soto?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I’m with ya but who else would you have signed to short term deals? They did so with Cruz and Hernandez and Franco.  Not many good players taking one year deals. I would take a flyer on Conforto depending on how serious his injury is.

plenty, tbh.  It was galling  to spot guy after guy who was available and then see them sign short term. OK, it was OK not to top the offer for Greinke, and Tepera signed for more than I figured at closer, but we were banging our heads about needing an innings eater, and 4-4-4.1 to start the year kind of proved the point.  Tyler Anderson at $8 million wouldn't have busted the bank. Danny Duffy is off of an injury, but 1 year $3 million?  Canha signed for 2 years and not that much, and Villar would have looked terrific at 3rd.  This is before we even talk about the bigger FAs.  I'd argue Bryant would have been a great fit and really wouldn't have blocked anyone due to his position versatility. 

[welch]

plenty, tbh.  It was galling  to spot guy after guy who was available and then see them sign short term. OK, it was OK not to top the offer for Greinke, and Tepera signed for more than I figured at closer, but we were banging our heads about needing an innings eater, and 4-4-4.1 to start the year kind of proved the point.  Tyler Anderson at $8 million wouldn't have busted the bank. Danny Duffy is off of an injury, but 1 year $3 million?  Canha signed for 2 years and not that much, and Villar would have looked terrific at 3rd.  This is before we even talk about the bigger FAs.  I'd argue Bryant would have been a great fit and really wouldn't have blocked anyone due to his position versatility. 

Agreed, especially about Bryant. Add in Steven Matz, signed for $8.5 million, going all the way up to $12.5 million in 2025. He would not have broken the luxury tax threshold. In November, it was obvious that the Nats lacked:

- three or four starting pirchers

- all but one relievers

- 2B, 3B, SS

- LF

- CF

The minors have Casey, who is a hopeful but strikes out, no middle infielders except House, a draft choice who is in the bottom-level minors, no outfielders other than Casey, so good looking starting pitchers who are a year or two from being ready even to try the majors. That is ugly.

However, daughter and I will still drive down for a weekend pair of games. This is my baseball team. I saw the expansion team in the worst seasons you can imagine. I went to a lot of games in 1959, the year they lost 19 games in a row. Good or bad, these are the Nats.

[imref]

Garcia and House are pretty good MI prospects, and Cluff is coming off a fantastic AFL so I wouldn't write him off just yet.  I agree that it would have been nice to have signed some of those lower-end starters, like Kikuchi for example.

[Natsinpwc]

I guess I am not seeing the point of signing a couple of veterans to win 75-80 games instead of 65-70 games? 

Also you guys keep forgetting they are paying $28.5 million in deferred salaries this year. Whatever way you look at it’s cash out the door this year.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/yearly/payroll/

[Smithian]

I guess I am not seeing the point of signing a couple of veterans to win 75-80 games instead of 65-70 games? 

They're there incase the team caught some fire early. You can add to that core at deadline.

Even if some things break right for this team, will be hard for them to win enough games to be in a place where they should add at the deadline.

[Natsinpwc]

They're there incase the team caught some fire early. You can add to that core at deadline.

Even if some things break right for this team, will be hard for them to win enough games to be in a place where they should add at the deadline.

They are tanking for a high draft pick.

[HalfSmokes]

Rizzo is a very mediocre GM who got very luck with a string of can't miss draft picks. He generally is not good at scouting amateur talent and that is why the Nats can't field a competitive team now that those draft picks have moved on or passed their peak.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

They are tanking for a high draft pick.

Baseball is the sport where this makes the least sense. I'd argue that the two best cases for the "tanking" strategy have been the Astros and the Cubs, but both teams had a lot more going on than just playing badly and accumulating high 1st round picks.  Strasburg / Harper / Rendon was a bit of a fluke, and you can argue that Strasburg is very good but short of the HoF generational guy he was supposed to be. Rendon almost proves the opposite of tanking.  He fell to the #6 pick, so striving for 1/1 isn't necessary.  You could make up a heck of an all star team just in LA among guys who were passed over in the draft, starting with that outfielder we passed on twice at #1 and #10 the year we selected Stras and Storen.

[imref]

Rizzo is a very mediocre GM who got very luck with a string of can't miss draft picks. He generally is not good at scouting amateur talent and that is why the Nats can't field a competitive team now that those draft picks have moved on or passed their peak.

Imagine how different things would be if Kieboom and Robles had lived up to expectations.

[HalfSmokes]

Imagine how different things would be if Kieboom and Robles had lived up to expectations.

imagine if we got more than a couple of mediocre prospects out of the draft in the decade since we took Giolito

[Kevrock]

Idk, Rizzo traded away a lot of talent over the years to fuel the competitive machine. Cavalli also looks like a huge hit and House could be as well. In general our farm isn’t in good enough shape and Rizzo had a streak of misses but “not a good talent scout” is way overstated imo

[HalfSmokes]

Idk, Rizzo traded away a lot of talent over the years to fuel the competitive machine. Cavalli also looks like a huge hit and House could be as well. In general our farm isn’t in good enough shape and Rizzo had a streak of misses but “not a good talent scout” is way overstated imo

He's mediocre, he hits about as much as any other slightly below average front office. He definitely hits far less than clubs that seem to constantly have prospects ready to step in and compete. Since Giolito, how many of his picks have gone on the even good careers? That was 10 years ago, so plenty of time for guys to develop