Trade Thread

[Smithian]

Only teams like the 2006-2010 Nationals want that out of their front line starters.

Just checked and in 2014 Roark was top 15 in ERA, FIP, and WAR for NL starters. In 2014, he had the 13th best WAR in the NL. Four different teams (Cards, Pads, Dodgers, Nats) had two pitchers with better numbers than those, with ERA and FIP being about same. The Cardinals, Padres, Dodgers, and Nationals (Stras/ZNN) all had some darn good pitchers. Roark was right there.

He is a midrotation starter for the Nationals, but more than half the NL would have been happy to have a starter with Roark's production in 2014 as their #1 and definitely their second starter. His arsenal looks weak when he pitches, but more often than not he gets the job done.

And this season he isn't top 15 in those but he's a good start or two away in each. It will be hard to match those numbers from 2014 but for now he is near the top in everything. We'll see once sample size continues to grow. Being able to slot in a Tanner Roark as your #3 or #4 guy is how you make a run at 100 wins.

[Elvir Ovcina]

Only teams like the 2006-2010 Nationals want that out of their front line starters.

I'm not quite sure what you're laughing at.  In the two seasons in which he's been a full time starter, Roark has ERA+ numbers of 131 and 132.  Or if you prefer raw ERA, 2.85 and 3.14.  League average ERA this year is 4.13.  If you had a team whose entire pitching staff was Roark, they'd be second in the league in ERA.  Or to put it in terms of individuals, Roark right now is 29th in the league in ERA.  There are 150 starting pitchers on 30 teams.  He's 20th in the NL, out of 75 starters on 15 teams (50 of whom have enough innings to qualify right now).  That's at least mid-tier starter results and more like a fringe #2 in terms of results, regardless of whether you think he's actually good enough to produce that.

[HattoriHanzo]

If Roark was so good then he should be able to net the nats a huge or at least an average haul in a trade. Roark trade value is less than Rich Hill who has much more stuff than Roark despite being much older and oft injured. Roark is the kind of pitcher, batters get pissed off when they don't take him 500 ft because his ball is straight and slow as they come on most outings.

[Slateman]

If Roark was so good then he should be able to net the nats a huge or at least an average haul in a trade. Roark trade value is less than Rich Hill who has much more stuff than Roark despite being much older and oft injured. Roark is the kind of pitcher, batters get pissed off when they don't take him 500 ft because his ball is straight and slow as they come on most outings.

Uh ... Its not straight and 92-93 isn't slow

[NatsAllThe Way]

How many wins does he have?  Isn't that all that really matters?  The rest is mostly fluff.

[zimm_da_kid]

I want wil Myers

[dshawg77]

If Roark was so good then he should be able to net the nats a huge or at least an average haul in a trade. Roark trade value is less than Rich Hill who has much more stuff than Roark despite being much older and oft injured. Roark is the kind of pitcher, batters get pissed off when they don't take him 500 ft because his ball is straight and slow as they come on most outings.

No way does Tanner Roark have less trade value that Rich Hill. That's crazy talk.

[Optics]

What's with the Roark hate? He may not be a Cy Young candidate but he's a solid #3 SP on most teams. On our team he's #4/#5(although with Gio's collapse he might be #3 now). Most teams would happily take him as their #2, hell on some bad teams he'd be a respectable #1.

[NJ Ave]

I don't even understand the argument, really. Roark ranks 47th out of 113 SP with over 60 IP in fastball velocity, which is MORE than fine since he ranks 16th out of 113 in GB%.

Is the argument that he's a soft-tosser? His average FB velocity is right below Corey Kluber and right above Marcus Stroman and Jordan Zimmermann. Are they soft-tossers as well?

[NJ Ave]

Also, in both years as a full-time starter, Roark has had 3 off-speed pitches (curveball, slider and changeup) that had positive pitch values by outcome.

At a certain point I don't really care what a pitch looks like if it's doing its job. I'd rather my pitchers have the Warthen slider than the Zito curveball.

[HattoriHanzo]

I don't even understand the argument, really. Roark ranks 47th out of 113 SP with over 60 IP in fastball velocity, which is MORE than fine since he ranks 16th out of 113 in GB%.

Is the argument that he's a soft-tosser? His average FB velocity is right below Corey Kluber and right above Marcus Stroman and Jordan Zimmermann. Are they soft-tossers as well?

JZimm and Stroman's velocity is down and in JZimm's case he's been in decline for years now when it comes to velocity. The panic on Stroman is so big in Toronto right now is that there discussions that Stroman might be sent down to fix whatever is broken with him. So yeah those two are soft tossers. I don't know about Kluber. 

[Mattionals]

People here just like to hate on players, lol.

Strasburg looks like an ace. Scherzer is an ace who can't contain home runs right now. Ross and Roark are very effective middle of the rotation starters, and one of them will give you 200+ innings when healthy while the younger one is on an innings limit. Gio is the issue, and I have to think the top brass is either hoping that Arroyo can give some innings, or piece together some Voth, Cole, and Giolito innings moving forward.

The bullpen will require the most work. I still firmly expect to see Chapman.

[NJ Ave]

JZimm and Stroman's velocity is down and in JZimm's case he's been in decline for years now when it comes to velocity. The panic on Stroman is so big in Toronto right now is that there discussions that Stroman might be sent down to fix whatever is broken with him. So yeah those two are soft tossers. I don't know about Kluber. 

So ignore the names. He's in the 60th percentile of pitchers in terms of raw velocity, and the 85th percentile in terms of GB%, which I include because pitchers like Roark often give up raw velocity to pitch their 2-seamers.

Besides "his fastball looks slow to me" give me one reason to think he's got a velocity problem?

[NJ Ave]

I mean, furthermore he got shelled when he ran it up to 95 MPH last year because he couldn't locate. So in part velocity is a strategic decision for him. In any case, I'll take all the Roark doubters for 3-4 more years if he maintains this kind of performance level.

[monkeyhit]

And Tanner would have pitched last night.   

[Monarch]

And Tanner would have pitched last night.   

if Stras couldn't go, I'm kind of glad it was Petit going against Kershaw. that was most likely a loss even with Strasburg.

[monkeyhit]

Yanks are done (6 games behind two teams). Chapman for Fedde. ASAP, Rizzo.

[Natsinpwc]

Yanks are done (6 games behind two teams). Chapman for Fedde. ASAP, Rizzo.

 

[dshawg77]

Yanks are done (6 games behind two teams). Chapman for Fedde. ASAP, Rizzo.

The son doesn't want to spend money, BUT if he decides to...look out.

[Slateman]

Yanks are done (6 games behind two teams). Chapman for Fedde. ASAP, Rizzo.

Unless Fedde starts lighting it up, gonna need more.

[UMDNats]

Yanks are done (6 games behind two teams). Chapman for Fedde. ASAP, Rizzo.

Why stop there? Let's trade Fedde for Chapman, then we can toss in Matt Skole if they add Miller.

[welch]

Why stop there? Let's trade Fedde for Chapman, then we can toss in Matt Skole if they add Miller.

(Or Giolito and Turner for 1/2 year of Chapman...a Yankee blog-site wishes, anyway)

[HattoriHanzo]

So ignore the names. He's in the 60th percentile of pitchers in terms of raw velocity, and the 85th percentile in terms of GB%, which I include because pitchers like Roark often give up raw velocity to pitch their 2-seamers.

Besides "his fastball looks slow to me" give me one reason to think he's got a velocity problem?

Because he can't smoke batters. When he strikes out batters, it's typically looking because he does plan well unlike gio, but he doesn't have great stuff. His ball when not moving which is most games screams HIT ME and HIT ME DEEP.

[Slateman]

Because he can't smoke batters. When he strikes out batters, it's typically looking because he does plan well unlike gio, but he doesn't have great stuff. His ball when not moving which is most games screams HIT ME and HIT ME DEEP.

Roark has the lowest homer rate and lowest slugging against of any of the starters

[Elvir Ovcina]

Because he can't smoke batters. When he strikes out batters, it's typically looking because he does plan well unlike gio, but he doesn't have great stuff. His ball when not moving which is most games screams HIT ME and HIT ME DEEP.

Madison Bumgarner doesn't smoke guys either.  Neither do lesser, but still effective pitchers like Zimmermann and Lackey.  You act as if the ability to mix pitches and locations is not relevant to pitching, only what each pitch looks like in isolation.  That's simply not a realistic view.