Poll

Automating the strike zone

Yes, technology has shown umps are incompetent
0 (0%)
No, it would change the game too much
0 (0%)
I can't decide.
0 (0%)

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Voting closed: November 09, 2015, 11:31:51 AM

Author Topic: It's time to automate the strike zone  (Read 5404 times)

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Offline tomterp

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Re: Re: The Bryce Harper Compendium (2015)
« Reply #75: August 03, 2015, 09:06:43 AM »
The size of the plate is constant, so that's two dimmensions

You're leaving out height, which varies by hitter.  And the plate is not a line, but is a pentagon, so the zone in theory is composed of 5 discrete borders extending upwards from the bottom of the knees to "a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants.  The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball."

Despite what is shown on typical TV coverage, the strike zone is NOT a uniform rectangle that relates only to the front edge of the plate, and doesn't vary with batter height.  A pitch can totally miss the front edge but curve into the zone later, or drop down into the zone from above and still be a strike despite missing the rectangle.

ESPN actually showed a graphic with the 3 dimensional zone, though I doubt they adjusted for batter height.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: The Bryce Harper Compendium (2015)
« Reply #76: August 03, 2015, 09:09:33 AM »
You're leaving out height, which varies by hitter.  And the plate is not a line, but is a pentagon, so the zone in theory is composed of 5 discrete borders extending upwards from the bottom of the knees to "a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants.  The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball."

Despite what is shown on typical TV coverage, the strike zone is NOT a uniform rectangle that relates only to the front edge of the plate, and doesn't vary with batter height.  A pitch can totally miss the front edge but curve into the zone later, or drop down into the zone from above and still be a strike despite missing the rectangle.

ESPN actually showed a graphic with the 3 dimensional zone, though I doubt they adjusted for batter height.

I don't think I've ever seen a pitch that has caught the point of the pentagon without passing over the square. As far as height, I'm in favor of them standardizing it - make the zone for a 6 foot tall batter.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: The Bryce Harper Compendium (2015)
« Reply #77: August 03, 2015, 09:11:29 AM »
I don't think I've ever seen a pitch that has caught the point of the pentagon without passing over the square. As far as height, I'm in favor of them standardizing it - make the zone for a 6 foot tall batter.
Isn't the average height a MLB higher than that?  not sure but most of these guys are tall.

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Re: Re: The Bryce Harper Compendium (2015)
« Reply #78: August 03, 2015, 09:15:55 AM »
Isn't the average height a MLB higher than that?  not sure but most of these guys are tall.

then find the average- it should only vary by a inch on each side for anyone but the extreme outliers (and baseball has already shown a willingness to refuse to taylor the zone for extremes)

Offline tomterp

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Re: Re: The Bryce Harper Compendium (2015)
« Reply #79: August 03, 2015, 09:16:06 AM »
I don't think I've ever seen a pitch that has caught the point of the pentagon without passing over the square. As far as height, I'm in favor of them standardizing it - make the zone for a 6 foot tall batter.

You've never seen a Livan high curve that just drops as it passes the hitter?

And i don't like the standardization either, it would bias the zone in favor of big players and discriminate against the Altuves of the world.  But, if they can do this electronically, then they can pre-measure each hitter prior to being allowed to play and have a customized zone, one that varies for each batter.

Another thing, how do you define a strike anyway?  If any part of the ball touches any edge of the 3-dimensional pentagonal zone is that a strike?  Or does 50% of the ball have to get in the zone?  100%?   :shrug:


Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: The Bryce Harper Compendium (2015)
« Reply #80: August 03, 2015, 09:18:03 AM »
then find the average
Hey, not my job man :)

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #81: August 03, 2015, 09:37:37 AM »
You've never seen a Livan high curve that just drops as it passes the hitter?
that is above the shoulders then drops over the triangle of the pentagon- I don't remember anything that extreme
Quote
And i don't like the standardization either, it would bias the zone in favor of big players and discriminate against the Altuves of the world. 
meh, baseball has already decided that some players are too small, in the words of churchill (or shaw or whoever else actually said it), we've already established what you are, now we're haggling over the price.
Quote
Another thing, how do you define a strike anyway?  If any part of the ball touches any edge of the 3-dimensional pentagonal zone is that a strike?  Or does 50% of the ball have to get in the zone?  100%?   :shrug:



:shrug: umpires already have to decide that (they just lack consistency now- make a decision and make it consistent)

Offline tomterp

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #82: August 03, 2015, 09:41:28 AM »
that is above the shoulders then drops over the triangle of the pentagon- I don't remember anything that extreme meh,

The more I think of this, the more I think I understated the frequency.  ALL pitchers are descending as they approach the plate.  Any pitch that just barely clears the front of the strike zone, is going to pass into the zone shortly thereafter.  So a pitch that passes over the CENTER of the front of the zone (assuming the pitch is not angling towards or away from the hitter) would have a deeper zone available to touch to be called a strike, versus a pitch to either side that would have less of a zone available to drop into.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #83: August 03, 2015, 09:50:35 AM »
unless the pitch is dead center across the zone, you're talking about giving it an extra or two, so 60 feet 6 inches and just above the shoulders, but flat enough to stay above the shoulders for another 8.5 inches, but then dropping into the zone in the remaining ~8.4 inches (and that's for a pitch traveling across the center of the triangle, and thing to the left or right has less space) would be the only call where the tip of the pentagon would matter. I can see it happening, but I don't think I've seen it and I'm guessing most umps would call it a ball now

Offline tomterp

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #84: August 03, 2015, 09:55:06 AM »
unless the pitch is dead center across the zone, you're talking about giving it an extra or two, so 60 feet 6 inches and just above the shoulders, but flat enough to stay above the shoulders for another 8.5 inches, but then dropping into the zone in the remaining ~8.4 inches (and that's for a pitch traveling across the center of the triangle, and thing to the left or right has less space) would be the only call where the tip of the pentagon would matter. I can see it happening, but I don't think I've seen it and I'm guessing most umps would call it a ball now

They could always change the shape of the plate, or change the rule.  So inconsiderate of baseball's founding fathers.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #85: August 03, 2015, 10:06:32 AM »

They could always change the shape of the plate, or change the rule.  So inconsiderate of baseball's founding fathers.

You're right, lets get back to basics 21 paces from pitchers mound to home, but pitchers have to throw underhand, balls caught after one bounce are an out...

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule11.shtml

Offline varoadking

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #86: August 03, 2015, 11:22:08 AM »
...balls caught after one bounce are an out...

No chance of that with Ramos behind the plate...

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #87: August 03, 2015, 12:09:33 PM »
No chance of that with Ramos behind the plate...
:hysterical:



Online Baseball is Life

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #90: July 11, 2019, 02:23:00 PM »
It's a high horse, and a righteous one.


Man, I love being righteous. Doesn't happen very often.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #91: July 11, 2019, 09:08:40 PM »
Maybe challenges on strike three only. Otherwise the art/skill of framing pitches would be meaningless.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #92: July 11, 2019, 09:22:43 PM »
Maybe challenges on strike three only. Otherwise the art/skill of framing pitches would be meaningless.

:shrug:

Offline Slateman

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #93: July 12, 2019, 09:52:46 AM »
Otherwise the art/skill of framing pitches would be meaningless.

That sounds fantastic. Catcher would stop being a offensive black hole

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #94: July 12, 2019, 09:58:05 AM »
Maybe challenges on strike three only. Otherwise the art/skill of framing pitches would be meaningless.

I’m a catcher. If my ability to frame a pitch can fool an umpire then he/she shouldn’t be an umpire.

But I hate automated strike zones.....

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #95: July 12, 2019, 09:58:32 AM »
That sounds fantastic. Catcher would stop being a offensive black hole

That’ll never happen without PED’s.

Online spidernat

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #96: July 12, 2019, 10:13:32 AM »
I’m a catcher. If my ability to frame a pitch can fool an umpire then he/she shouldn’t be an umpire.





:worship:

Offline Scrapple

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #97: July 12, 2019, 02:46:45 PM »
I’m a catcher. If my ability to frame a pitch can fool an umpire then he/she shouldn’t be an umpire.

But I hate automated strike zones.....
You’re not fooling the umpire, you’re selling the pitch.
If you’re a catcher you should know better than most that an umpire can’t see perfectly on both sides of the plate. If the umpire sets up on the inside he’s not gonna get a “perfect look” at a pitch 96 on the outer black edge of the plate.
That said, if the pitch does skirt the outer black of the plate where the umpire can’t get a good look, he will then have to make a bit of an educated decision based on a few factors that includes how the pitch was received and framed by the catcher.
The pitch might have been a strike however, if your glove is moving away from the plate you’re not going to get the call. On the other hand if the pitch was just a 1/2” off the plate yet 90 percent of your glove was in the strike-zone when you caught the pitch the umpire will likely give you the call.
Framing pitches is a great skill and I will hate to see it fully taken from the game. Suzuki is one of the best.

Keep taking the human element from the game and humans might just stop paying for tickets.  :shock:

Go Naaaaaaaaats!

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #98: July 12, 2019, 03:06:20 PM »
You’re not fooling the umpire, you’re selling pitch.
If you’re a catcher you should know better than most that an umpire can’t see perfectly on both sides of the plate. If the umpire sets up on the inside he’s not gonna get a “perfect look” at a pitch 96 on the outer black edge of the plate.
That said, if the pitch does skirt the outer black of the plate where the umpire can’t get a good look, he will then have to make a bit of an educated decision based on a few factors that includes how the pitch was received and framed by the catcher.
The pitch might have been a strike however, if your glove is moving away from the plate you’re not going to get the call. On the other hand if the pitch was just a 1/2” off the plate yet 90 percent of your glove was in the strike-zone when you caught the pitch the umpire will likely give you the call.
Framing pitches is a great skill and I will hate to see it fully taken from the game. Suzuki is one of the best.

Keep taking the human element from the game and humans might just stop paying for tickets.  :shock:

Go Naaaaaaaaats!

You just made a great argument for automating the zone

Online bluestreak

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #99: July 12, 2019, 03:06:25 PM »
Can you tell me in the rulebook where they address pitch framing?