Poll

Automating the strike zone

Yes, technology has shown umps are incompetent
29 (87.9%)
No, it would change the game too much
4 (12.1%)
I can't decide.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Voting closed: November 10, 2019, 11:12:54 PM

Author Topic: It's time to automate the strike zone  (Read 7373 times)

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Online bluestreak

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #125: July 14, 2019, 09:27:24 PM »
If umps already miss the call, the game is no worse off

I’m thinking those will now be strikes. Hitters will adjust. But pitchers will adjust too. I think we are used to called strikes being hittable. I think there will be pitches called strikes by a robot that aren’t.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #126: July 14, 2019, 09:27:26 PM »
I don’t think a slider slides that radically, maybe

Like I said, sort of side to side.

Online bluestreak

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #127: July 14, 2019, 09:39:02 PM »
This podcast has an interview with a former umpire. He goes over the issues with the strike zone we are talking about. The interview begins at 17:35 and the strike zone stuff is at the beginning. The entire interview is absolutely fascinating. I recommend listening to it.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1232-the-ump-show/

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #128: July 14, 2019, 10:23:49 PM »
I have two questions, first what are the physics involved in a ball crossing into the zone from the side- is it even possible for a pitcher to do it and, if so, do current umpires view the zone as a plain or in three dimensions- would the even call something cutting across the back of the zone a strike

Definitely, particularly pitchers with side arm or quarter arm slot motions will have balls that enter the back half of the zone. Sinkers will enter in the zone and drop out.

I don't believe that human umps are capable of calling a 3D zone with 90 MPH pitches with movement. Roboumps can't either but they'll get better fast.

Online bluestreak

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #129: July 14, 2019, 10:34:44 PM »
Dodecahedron?

Heptahedron, specifically pentagonal prism. I looked it up.

Offline dracnal

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #130: July 15, 2019, 12:07:51 PM »
Heptahedron, specifically pentagonal prism. I looked it up.

Not a Septahedron? I thought hepta- usually meant 'six?'

Online bluestreak

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #131: July 15, 2019, 12:21:47 PM »
Not a Septahedron? I thought hepta- usually meant 'six?'

Hexa- Six
Hepta- Seven

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #132: July 15, 2019, 12:25:47 PM »
Heptahedron, specifically pentagonal prism. I looked it up.

The cube portion is the only part that matters. The triangular portion is irrelevant. There is no chance for a pitched ball to enter the strike zone behind the cube from the bottom or the sides. It is possible from the top, but the area of the triangle is tiny and the exact distance from the ground is subjective based on how straight the batter is standing.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #133: July 15, 2019, 12:47:45 PM »
This podcast has an interview with a former umpire. He goes over the issues with the strike zone we are talking about. The interview begins at 17:35 and the strike zone stuff is at the beginning. The entire interview is absolutely fascinating. I recommend listening to it.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1232-the-ump-show/

Good stuff. I listened to it though I still don't think any of us will know how it will impact the strike zone until they start using it. There are just too many variables right now with humans back there.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #134: July 15, 2019, 12:49:21 PM »
Good stuff. I listened to it though I still don't think any of us will know how it will impact the strike zone until they start using it. There are just too many variables right now with humans back there.

I think it would be priceless if they end up shutting him down in September.

Offline dracnal

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #135: July 15, 2019, 02:11:34 PM »
Hexa- Six
Hepta- Seven

Thanks! Brain dead moment for me, apparently.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #136: July 15, 2019, 02:45:12 PM »
I don’t think a slider slides that radically, maybe
Trevor Bauers gets 10+ horizontal inches on his slider.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=545333&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=SL|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=pfx_x&s_type=2&startDate=01/01/2019&endDate=01/01/2020

Offline Reechman

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #137: July 15, 2019, 03:51:50 PM »
Good stuff. I listened to it though I still don't think any of us will know how it will impact the strike zone until they start using it. There are just too many variables right now with humans back there.

Can't they just test this technology for a season and then open up a discussion if it's good enough to stay or not?

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #138: July 15, 2019, 04:05:24 PM »
Can't they just test this technology for a season and then open up a discussion if it's good enough to stay or not?

They will test it in the minors, then spring training, etc., before they take it on. I don't know if it needs to be a part of the next CBA with umps or players.

Look at the current replay system's implementation for an example.

And welcome to the board!

Offline nfotiu

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #139: July 15, 2019, 06:14:41 PM »
Trevor Bauers gets 10+ horizontal inches on his slider.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=545333&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=SL|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=pfx_x&s_type=2&startDate=01/01/2019&endDate=01/01/2020
Yeah, over 726 inches though.  How much is is moving in that last 8.5 inches?  A tenth of an inch?   I can buy that umpires imagine they are calling 3d strikes, but from behind the plate there is no way they can make meaningful judgement about where a 90mph pitch is at the front of the plate vs the back of the plate.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #140: July 15, 2019, 10:01:30 PM »
Wonder how much more an automate strike-zone will slow the game down?
Most if not all umpires call pitches on the black strikes even though it is not a strike per the rule book. There will also be no “sympathy strikes” called by “automate” when the game gets out of hand and both teams just want to get the hell out of there. The score of a game is 23 - 2 and the umpire can’t widen the strike-zone to help move the game along to an ending. Geesh!!!  :roll:
Back in the day before all this technology made umpires look bad, you would quickly know when an umpire was either overheated or had an early dinner date because every pitch from your nose to your toes became a strike. If the pitch wasn’t going over the catchers head you better be swinging or you would be quickly walking back to the dugout to take a seat.   :shock:

Let’s go Naaaaaats!!!

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #141: July 15, 2019, 10:22:19 PM »
I find it extremely funny that some people think that robot umps will help the hitters and others think it will help the pitchers. Some people think it will speed the game up and some people think it will slow the game down. Honestly, the only thing we know for sure before testing it is that there will be a lot more consistency and a lot less griping about calls and that will a great thing for the game.

Offline trangert418

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #142: July 15, 2019, 10:50:56 PM »
Wonder how much more an automate strike-zone will slow the game down?
Most if not all umpires call pitches on the black strikes even though it is not a strike per the rule book. There will also be no “sympathy strikes” called by “automate” when the game gets out of hand and both teams just want to get the hell out of there. The score of a game is 23 - 2 and the umpire can’t widen the strike-zone to help move the game along to an ending. Geesh!!!  :roll:
Back in the day before all this technology made umpires look bad, you would quickly know when an umpire was either overheated or had an early dinner date because every pitch from your nose to your toes became a strike. If the pitch wasn’t going over the catchers head you better be swinging or you would be quickly walking back to the dugout to take a seat.   :shock:

Let’s go Naaaaaats!!!

From the MLB 2019 Rule Book:
A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which:
(b) Is not struck at, if any part of the ball passes through any part
of the strike zone;

So you're saying the "black" is not part of the strike zone?



Offline Scrapple

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #143: July 16, 2019, 07:39:53 AM »
From the MLB 2019 Rule Book:
A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which:
(b) Is not struck at, if any part of the ball passes through any part
of the strike zone;

So you're saying the "black" is not part of the strike zone?
That’s correct. The black portion of the plate was designed beveled with the intention it be mostly covered by dirt so players would not get injured sliding into it. The dimensions of Homeplate does not include the black.
If technology does take over the actual strike-zone we may never hear FP use the term “painting the black” or “paint” again.  :(  Guess he could say the pitcher, “lazered the outer edge”!  :crackup:

Offline mitlen

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #144: July 16, 2019, 07:55:45 AM »
Will there be a joint team (MLB and MLBPA) to calibrate the contraptions?     Will it be done by an outside entity?     Will there be negotiatons to determine what exactly is a "strike zone"?      Can the umpire over rule the machine?     Will a player be able to challenge (file a grievance) a call based on the last calibration of the device   ....   akin to challenging a radar gun based on weather conditions, the last calibration,  etc.?    This could be a sticky wicket.     :P

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #145: July 16, 2019, 07:59:37 AM »
The funny thing is that the automatic zone is already used to score umpires. If the league is comfortable with it judging the zone in that case, removing the middleman just doesn’t seem like an enormous leap

Offline mitlen

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #146: July 16, 2019, 08:00:09 AM »
The funny thing is that the automatic zone is already used to score umpires. If the league is comfortable with it judging the zone in that case, removing the middleman just doesn’t seem like an enormous leap

Look for the union label.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #147: July 16, 2019, 08:21:40 AM »
I find it extremely funny that some people think that robot umps will help the hitters and others think it will help the pitchers. Some people think it will speed the game up and some people think it will slow the game down. Honestly, the only thing we know for sure before testing it is that there will be a lot more consistency and a lot less griping about calls and that will a great thing for the game.
With all the big money at stake for the players now and bets on the games by gamblers I suppose I am going to have to explore agreeing with you on the idea of a robo-ump. Nobody likes being “wronged” especially when it comes to money.
However, I feel one of the greatest lessons I ever taught youngsters on a baseball field was, “life isn’t always fair” and to obtain any kind of success at anything they would have to learn how to over come those obstacles.
Carry on. Guess I’ve become nothing more than a rambling old man that doesn’t like change in his life anymore.  :old:

Offline Scrapple

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #148: July 16, 2019, 08:32:52 AM »
Will there be a joint team (MLB and MLBPA) to calibrate the contraptions?     Will it be done by an outside entity?     Will there be negotiatons to determine what exactly is a "strike zone"?      Can the umpire over rule the machine?     Will a player be able to challenge (file a grievance) a call based on the last calibration of the device   ....   akin to challenging a radar gun based on weather conditions, the last calibration,  etc.?    This could be a sticky wicket.     :P
“Calibration”

LOLROTFPIMP  :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Funny but true!!!
Gotta have that “Certification of Calibration” in my hand before allowing the game to start.

Sorry, there’s going to be a slight delay in today’s game.  :roll:


Offline dracnal

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Re: It's time to automate the strike zone
« Reply #149: July 16, 2019, 09:09:59 AM »
Will there be a joint team (MLB and MLBPA) to calibrate the contraptions?     Will it be done by an outside entity?     Will there be negotiatons to determine what exactly is a "strike zone"?      Can the umpire over rule the machine?     Will a player be able to challenge (file a grievance) a call based on the last calibration of the device   ....   akin to challenging a radar gun based on weather conditions, the last calibration,  etc.?    This could be a sticky wicket.     :P

Don't know the answer to most of your questions, but this one is absolutely a yes.  During the game the only person on the field that knows what the machine called is the home plate umpire. If the ump feels it blew a call, he can override it at will. Of course, how many times he overrrode it will become part of the game record and I'm assuming used to evaluate the ump.

It's mostly supposed to be used when the machine totally blows a call, for example a ball that bounces in the dirt then skips up to break the plane will be called a strike by the machine even though it's a dead ball. It also can't rule on swinging strikes outside the zone.