Author Topic: The Garage  (Read 66456 times)

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Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #250: January 06, 2016, 03:14:05 PM »
The VW diesel does not get better mileage than the similarly sized Chevy Cruze.

I don't think that people got screwed eyes-wide-open. They were screwed with the full faith and backing of the EPA. Which hurts a lot, lot more.


Oh come on now  ...  ain't no upstanding yuppy or such gonna buy a Chevy Cruze.   How in the world can you justify that at the cube farm?      Thought they were gettin' something special with VW stamped on it.    How special was it?   Some of these folks are the first ones to jump up and tell others to take responsibility for their lives/mistakes.    EPA didn't buy that car.     They got screwed by the gov't?       Welcome to the club.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #251: January 06, 2016, 04:00:31 PM »
You people and your rolling coffins.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #252: January 06, 2016, 04:07:34 PM »
Personally, I'd love a Golf. But I'm not a fan of small diesels (I've had one). That 1.8T gasser looks like a great engine, though.

Oh come on now  ...  ain't no upstanding yuppy or such gonna buy a Chevy Cruze.   How in the world can you justify that at the cube farm?      Thought they were gettin' something special with VW stamped on it.    How special was it?   Some of these folks are the first ones to jump up and tell others to take responsibility for their lives/mistakes.    EPA didn't buy that car.     They got screwed by the gov't?       Welcome to the club.

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #253: January 06, 2016, 09:04:05 PM »
So...not easily done then?  Lean out an air/fuel mixture to accomplish this and you can expect catastrophic engine damage.  It doesn't take much. 

If you mean pay you to go away...I'd never take that deal...I'd want them to take the car back and refund my entire purchase price.  Mess with the air/fuel mixture and the car would become a time bomb...

For $10,000, I'll go away.  If only modern cars were as simple as old cars and our bikes.  Once computers get involved, I think there is a lot more to it than that.

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #254: January 06, 2016, 09:05:54 PM »
You people and your rolling coffins.

...   and you ride a bicycle in Minnesota in the winter?     We worry about ya MDS.    :)

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #255: January 06, 2016, 09:06:29 PM »
Must be just me but I find it odd that owners wanna sue VW.     It's like a guy buying a 65" HD TV for $150 and bragging about what a good deal he got.    Then, he's shocked when he finds out it's stolen.      It appears that no other manufacturer could match VW's mileage numbers ..  not even Mercedes.    "Look at this.   I got a VW diesel that gets X% more gas mileage than anything Mercedes or anyone else can get.    Think they fudged the numbers?    Pshaw.   VW wouldn't lie but if they do, I'll feel violated and sue 'em."     Friends, you got screwed with your eyes wide open.       It's the rest of us who should sue.   Those of us who followed the rules and didn't cheat.    Those who had to pay to have their cars in compliance.  Those of us who are breathing worse quality air because of the collusion between VW and the people who drove these vehicles.    We're the ones who were violated and whose "experiences" and quality of life have been diminished.   :)

Except it isn't about the mileage, it's about the emissions.  I've already owned two other TDIs, and they could all get me over 20 km./litre on the highway.  That's why I expected that would still be the case.  The emissions standards got more strict, they met them, blah blah blah just gimme the keys.  If they mis-reported the mileage they could get (which most dealers do), that would be a much smaller deal to me.

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #256: January 06, 2016, 09:08:50 PM »
Except it isn't about the mileage, it's about the emissions.  I've already owned two other TDIs, and they could all get me over 20 km./litre on the highway.  That's why I expected that would still be the case.  The emissions standards got more strict, they met them, blah blah blah just gimme the keys.  If they mis-reported the mileage they could get (which most dealers do), that would be a much smaller deal to me.

In Northern Virginia (and other high emission areas designated by the government), one has to pass emissions every year or two, depending on your plate renewal choice.    I wonder if the emissions would pass every time they were tested with the old computer program?

These programs were designed to defraud the government.   VW has bigger problems than pissed off owners.

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #257: January 06, 2016, 09:27:40 PM »
The car would be completely un-driveable, with no acceleration, because they'd be starving it of fuel. Fuel mileage probably wouldn't suffer that much. And they'd still probably have to add a urea tank. No other compliant diesel exists without a urea tank. That might not be possible on a car engineered to not have one.

It's not only programming. I'm willing to make a one month avi wager that they will never be able to make these cars compliant (at current compliance standards).  I'll switch to an Expos logo if I'm wrong.

The car becoming completely un-driveable is almost best case for me.  If I get a full refund after 2 years, that's basically a 2 year lease I didn't have to pay for.

What is a urea tank?  If it isn't a two-stroke engine, I'm kind of dumb.

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #258: January 06, 2016, 09:29:56 PM »
In Northern Virginia (and other high emission areas designated by the government), one has to pass emissions every year or two, depending on your plate renewal choice.    I wonder if the emissions would pass every time they were tested with the old computer program?

These programs were designed to defraud the government.   VW has bigger problems than pissed off owners.

Around here, if you drive a gas car, they hook up to the tailpipe and measure your emissions once the car is five years old.  If you drive a diesel, they look inside to make sure the engine light isn't on and then wave you through.

But since my car is only 1.5 years old, it wouldn't have had to go for a while anyway.

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #259: January 06, 2016, 09:47:14 PM »
Around here, if you drive a gas car, they hook up to the tailpipe and measure your emissions once the car is five years old.  If you drive a diesel, they look inside to make sure the engine light isn't on and then wave you through.

But since my car is only 1.5 years old, it wouldn't have had to go for a while anyway.

They screw us here (in the states) more often.    :)     The one or two year emissions test is only required in certain high emissions areas.   For instance, if you live in the DC suburbs, it's whenever you renew your tags (one or two years).    In the wilds of Virginia, it's only required when you buy or sell the car.    I think there may be a waiver for antique cars as well.

Offline varoadking

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #260: January 06, 2016, 10:08:54 PM »
They screw us here (in the states) more often.    :)     The one or two year emissions test is only required in certain high emissions areas.   For instance, if you live in the DC suburbs, it's whenever you renew your tags (one or two years).    In the wilds of Virginia, it's only required when you buy or sell the car.    I think there may be a waiver for antique cars as well.

No such tests down here in the Fashionable West End of Henrico County...  :D

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #261: January 06, 2016, 10:11:32 PM »
No such tests down here in the Fashionable West End of Henrico County...  :D

My boy filled me in on that injustice.   :)

Offline imref

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #262: January 06, 2016, 10:30:13 PM »
Oh come on now  ...  ain't no upstanding yuppy or such gonna buy a Chevy Cruze.   How in the world can you justify that at the cube farm?      Thought they were gettin' something special with VW stamped on it.    How special was it?   Some of these folks are the first ones to jump up and tell others to take responsibility for their lives/mistakes.    EPA didn't buy that car.     They got screwed by the gov't?       Welcome to the club.

The diesel Passat is a lot bigger (though I love the Cruze, it's about my favorite rental car).

There was a report earlier that VW may have to end up buying back about 150,000 cars in the US.  The fix that they have developed would be more expensive to implement than simply buying the cars back from their owners at fair market value.

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #263: January 06, 2016, 10:35:16 PM »
The diesel Passat is a lot bigger (though I love the Cruze, it's about my favorite rental car).

There was a report earlier that VW may have to end up buying back about 150,000 cars in the US.  The fix that they have developed would be more expensive to implement than simply buying the cars back from their owners at fair market value.

A Passat is just a puffy Jetta with a million weird electrical gremlins.

Offline imref

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #264: January 06, 2016, 10:50:11 PM »
A Passat is just a puffy Jetta with a million weird electrical gremlins.

I rented their small SUV a few months back.  In just about every car it's pretty easy to find the things you need, they are largely placed logically and feature intuitive controls.  Not so with the VW.  Simple things like the emergency brake - not a pedal or pull handle, but a lever set flush with the center console next to the cup holder.  Seriously?

Though to be fair, it's not as bad as the Tartan Prancer.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #265: January 06, 2016, 10:52:48 PM »
...   and you ride a bicycle in Minnesota in the winter?     We worry about ya MDS.    :)

As long as you don't stop it ain't bad.

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #266: January 06, 2016, 11:00:32 PM »
I rented their small SUV a few months back.  In just about every car it's pretty easy to find the things you need, they are largely placed logically and feature intuitive controls.  Not so with the VW.  Simple things like the emergency brake - not a pedal or pull handle, but a lever set flush with the center console next to the cup holder.  Seriously?

Though to be fair, it's not as bad as the Tartan Prancer.

SUVs are stupid. Most of the controls in a VW car are above average for intuitive design though.

Offline imref

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #267: January 06, 2016, 11:01:05 PM »

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #268: January 07, 2016, 08:47:06 AM »
What is a urea tank?  If it isn't a two-stroke engine, I'm kind of dumb.
I don't know the engine rules, but I'm guessing the urea is for an emission control device like some sort of catalyst.  That's how you lower nitrogen oxides.  You used to not be able to use catalysts on diesels because the sulfur would poison the catalyst, but with the new ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel, you can run a catalyst to scrub emissions.

Offline imref

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #269: January 07, 2016, 11:46:29 AM »
I don't know the engine rules, but I'm guessing the urea is for an emission control device like some sort of catalyst.  That's how you lower nitrogen oxides.  You used to not be able to use catalysts on diesels because the sulfur would poison the catalyst, but with the new ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel, you can run a catalyst to scrub emissions.

urea mixes with the diesel exhaust to clean it.  See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #270: January 07, 2016, 05:08:24 PM »
The way the new ones are supposed to deal with those particulates is by burning them off at some point in the exhaust process, partly by injecting more fuel in there. This is actually why the 2007 and newer ones can't run bio. It gums up.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #271: January 07, 2016, 05:40:54 PM »
urea mixes with the diesel exhaust to clean it.  See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
like I said, use the urea in a catalytic process - selective catalytic reduction - to reduce oxides of nitrogen.

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #272: January 07, 2016, 05:41:40 PM »
http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2016/01/virginia-offers-new-roadside-emission-testing-option/

I'm due an emissions test soon and they're settin' a few up in my area.   Think I'll check it out.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #273: January 07, 2016, 08:10:58 PM »
Urea is injected into the exhaust as a catalyst to reduce NOx. Putting more fuel into a relatively cool exhaust stream (at least as compared to the very high temperature combustion chamber, where fuel injected under very high pressure into highly compressed air, and combusts) couldn't possibly reduce emissions.

Diesels will always be dirty engines because combustion is far less complete than it is in a gasoline engine. Save it for big vehicles that need ungodly torque to start big loads.

Interestingly, the reason diesel vehicles go further on a gallon of fuel is because diesel contains more energy per gallon. They are not more efficient than a gasoline engine. Based on miles per BTU, they are basically identical.

The way the new ones are supposed to deal with those particulates is by burning them off at some point in the exhaust process, partly by injecting more fuel in there. This is actually why the 2007 and newer ones can't run bio. It gums up.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #274: January 07, 2016, 08:16:22 PM »
This went badly for you last time, didn't it?

http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2016/01/virginia-offers-new-roadside-emission-testing-option/

I'm due an emissions test soon and they're settin' a few up in my area.   Think I'll check it out.