Author Topic: Rolling Thunder  (Read 33496 times)

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Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #625: June 06, 2019, 08:37:52 PM »
https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/in-case-of-failure

Just a reminder that DDay was never a sure thing

Missus and I were talking about the 700 or so who drowned/died during one of the rehearsals for Overlord.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #626: June 06, 2019, 08:42:57 PM »
Missus and I were talking about the 700 or so who drowned/died during one of the rehearsals for Overlord.

Also the soldiers who died or were captured for a proof of concept

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #627: June 06, 2019, 08:47:11 PM »
Also the soldiers who died or were captured for a proof of concept

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid

I do recall that now that you brought it up.    It boggles the mind to consider everything that went into the invasion of Normandy.    Those things that worked and those that didn't.     Yet, Ike considered the possibility that it wouldn't work and he would take responsibility.    When it worked, he shunned any praise for its success.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #628: June 06, 2019, 09:02:15 PM »
The loss of life in both the world wars is staggering. Don’t know how the troops kept going.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #629: June 06, 2019, 09:30:43 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

Just wrapping my head around the numbers involved on the eastern front is impossible

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #630: June 06, 2019, 09:33:33 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

Just wrapping my head around the numbers involved on the eastern front is impossible

...   and this is just Europe.

Offline imref

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #631: June 06, 2019, 11:25:59 PM »
Also the soldiers who died or were captured for a proof of concept

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid

Wow. Never heard of that.  My father in law landed a few days after d-day as he was in the ordnance corps and was responsible for retrieving and repairing disabled armor. He hated talking about the war as he lost a brother and had another return with malaria that eventually killed him.  The one story I remember him telling was when his unit was sent to recover tanks that the army tried to float ashore. Most sunk or capsized with crews in them. He always broke down when talking about what he saw. 

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #632: June 07, 2019, 12:01:03 AM »
Audie Murphy was buried in Arlington National Cemetery on June 7, 1971.

Online varoadking

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #633: June 07, 2019, 12:02:28 AM »
Audie Murphy was buried in Arlington National Cemetery on June 7, 1971.

My father's 43rd birthday...

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #634: June 07, 2019, 12:05:43 AM »
My father's 43rd birthday...

Salute to both men.

Online Mathguy

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #635: June 07, 2019, 03:35:12 AM »
Those troops were coming out of the Great Depression.  The opportunity to do some truly worthwhile increased the courage and drive to succeed.

The loss of life in both the world wars is staggering. Don’t know how the troops kept going.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #636: June 07, 2019, 08:42:11 AM »
Those troops were coming out of the Great Depression.  The opportunity to do some truly worthwhile increased the courage and drive to succeed.


IMHO        That may be the initial/macro reason to sign up/drafted, etc.      In the end, it's the guy next to you that helps generate the courage and the drive to succeed, i.e. surviving.     Some sacrifice themselves for their "friends".     For the most part, I suspect the guys comin' out of the Higgins or in the Ardennes were thinkin' about themselves and their buddies.   They were interested in defeating that enemy soldier/unit and not defeating the Third Reich per se.    I hesitate to bring this up on the internet because I don't want this taken as a troll point or an attempt to counter your point.       It's just my opinion on a subject that's probably been talked about in every war.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #637: June 07, 2019, 09:27:29 AM »
Also the soldiers who died or were captured for a proof of concept

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid
well, Dieppe was more the proof that you needed to hit beaches rather than try to capture a port.  Fortunately, we had the Higgins boat. Next time someone says nothing good comes out of the swamps, point them to that.

Offline imref

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #638: June 07, 2019, 09:39:05 AM »
IMHO        That may be the initial/macro reason to sign up/drafted, etc.      In the end, it's the guy next to you that helps generate the courage and the drive to succeed, i.e. surviving.     Some sacrifice themselves for their "friends".     For the most part, I suspect the guys comin' out of the Higgins or in the Ardennes were thinkin' about themselves and their buddies.   They were interested in defeating that enemy soldier/unit and not defeating the Third Reich per se.    I hesitate to bring this up on the internet because I don't want this taken as a troll point or an attempt to counter your point.       It's just my opinion on a subject that's probably been talked about in every war.

Have you seen "They shall not grow old?"  It's a WWI documentary by Peter Jackson that uses actual interviews with British soldiers as the audio track.  They do talk about the sense of purpose that drove them to serve.   Like many other soldiers, the ones who were interviewed didn't realize the horrors of war until they were immersed in it. 

On another note, my father in law did talk once about receiving orders to prepare to go to Japan shortly after Germany surrendered.  I couldn't imagine any point of lower morale for him and his fellow soldiers.

Offline imref

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #639: June 07, 2019, 09:40:09 AM »
well, Dieppe was more the proof that you needed to hit beaches rather than try to capture a port.  Fortunately, we had the Higgins boat. Next time someone says nothing good comes out of the swamps, point them to that.

Ever been to the national museum of WWII in New Orleans?  When I was there, the first thing you see in the lobby is a Higgins Boat.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #640: June 07, 2019, 09:43:40 AM »
Have you seen "They shall not grow old?"  It's a WWI documentary by Peter Jackson that uses actual interviews with British soldiers as the audio track.  They do talk about the sense of purpose that drove them to serve.   Like many other soldiers, the ones who were interviewed didn't realize the horrors of war until they were immersed in it. 

On another note, my father in law did talk once about receiving orders to prepare to go to Japan shortly after Germany surrendered.  I couldn't imagine any point of lower morale for him and his fellow soldiers.

I have not seen it.    My opinions were formed by my interactions. 

Offline imref

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #641: June 07, 2019, 09:46:57 AM »
I have not seen it.    My opinions were formed by my interactions.

It's worth watching.  While as I mentioned, it was a sense of purpose that drove them to serve, once they were in the trenches it was all about survival.  One of the more interesting parts is where they show the interaction with captured Germans.  For the most part they were very friendly toward each other.  Both sides seemed to act as if they were just doing a job and had little animosity toward one another.

Offline dracnal

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #642: June 07, 2019, 11:33:31 AM »
I have not seen it.    My opinions were formed by my interactions.

Honestly, I don't think you're wrong at all. Imref's point that a sense of duty caused folks to sign up makes sense, but once you've seen the elephant, it's a wholly different motivation that keeps you going.

Offline imref

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #643: June 07, 2019, 11:54:52 AM »
Honestly, I don't think you're wrong at all. Imref's point that a sense of duty caused folks to sign up makes sense, but once you've seen the elephant, it's a wholly different motivation that keeps you going.

Yeah, I thought my post supported Mitlen's point, not contradicted it, apologies if it came across differently.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #644: June 07, 2019, 12:10:18 PM »
"They Shall Not Grow Old" is very powerful.  I'm going to Ieper (Ypres) next week, will try to walk the whole salient. 

Offline imref

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #645: June 07, 2019, 01:30:45 PM »
"They Shall Not Grow Old" is very powerful.  I'm going to Ieper (Ypres) next week, will try to walk the whole salient. 

have a great trip

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #646: June 07, 2019, 01:55:57 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

Just wrapping my head around the numbers involved on the eastern front is impossible

25 million Russians died during WWII. 13% of the entire Soviet Population. I can't imagine something on that order in the United States. Like 40-45 million dead. I'd find it difficult to go on. No wonder they call it the Great Patriotic War. I think we likely don't give the Russians enough credit for helping to save the world's bacon. 

Online Mathguy

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #647: June 07, 2019, 09:07:23 PM »
But they were dealing with Stalin.  The view of death being worse than life wasn't a big deal

25 million Russians died during WWII. 13% of the entire Soviet Population. I can't imagine something on that order in the United States. Like 40-45 million dead. I'd find it difficult to go on. No wonder they call it the Great Patriotic War. I think we likely don't give the Russians enough credit for helping to save the world's bacon. 

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #648: June 08, 2019, 10:25:10 AM »
But they were dealing with Stalin.  The view of death being worse than life wasn't a big deal
The peasants loved Stalin. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #649: June 08, 2019, 11:11:04 AM »
The peasants loved Stalin. 
the ones he didn't starve or kill.