The Bryce Harper Compendium (2014)

[Slateman]

Oh he's hitting? Like that 'tear' he went on for three games earlier in the year. Since you point out that he's hitting - I will point out that he's hit .230 since returning from the injury a month ago June 30th. Also slugging under .350 which is putrid. He's hitting. Are you just posting drivel to bump your post count or trying to actually add something?

Back to the blackboard, slateman. There is much for you to learn about the game.

Last ten games, his OBP is almost .400. He's seeing the ball well, striking out less, and taking walks. He's also had some solid hits as well as some strong contact. He's coming back from a hand injury thay is known to sap power for a couple of months (Josh Hamiton has slugged over .400 since coming back). He's more relaxed at the plate, he's taking walks, and he's been consistently hitting the ball hard.

Seems like you should learn a bit more about this game before attempting to talk trash about it.

[DPMOmaha]

Last ten games, his OBP is almost .400. He's seeing the ball well, striking out less, and taking walks. He's also had some solid hits as well as some strong contact. He's coming back from a hand injury thay is known to sap power for a couple of months (Josh Hamiton has slugged over .400 since coming back). He's more relaxed at the plate, he's taking walks, and he's been consistently hitting the ball hard.

Seems like you should learn a bit more about this game before attempting to talk trash about it.

78 AB's.

[BH34Natural]

Last ten games, his OBP is almost .400. He's seeing the ball well, striking out less, and taking walks. He's also had some solid hits as well as some strong contact. He's coming back from a hand injury thay is known to sap power for a couple of months (Josh Hamiton has slugged over .400 since coming back). He's more relaxed at the plate, he's taking walks, and he's been consistently hitting the ball hard.

Seems like you should learn a bit more about this game before attempting to talk trash about it.

You're using 'SSS' small sample size to tilt stats more in support of the incorrect point you're trying to prove. I think a month is a better body of work of the overall picture, certainly better than last ten games. Anyways, what you just used to support your argument that 'at least he's hitting' would be more supportive of, he's getting on base. He's not hitting all that much.

I would love to be able to agree with you. But he's not hitting. I'm still waiting on him to start playing well offensively. To say he's hitting right now is misleading.

[DPMOmaha]

You're using 'SSS' small sample size to tilt stats more in support of the incorrect point you're trying to prove. I think a month is a better body of work of the overall picture, certainly better than last ten games. Anyways, what you just used to support your argument that 'at least he's hitting' would be more supportive of, he's getting on base. He's not hitting all that much.

I would love to be able to agree with you. But he's not hitting. I'm still waiting on him to start playing well offensively. To say he's hitting right now is misleading.

He didn't say he was hitting in that quote.

[Slateman]

You're using 'SSS' small sample size to tilt stats more in support of the incorrect point you're trying to prove. I think a month is a better body of work of the overall picture, certainly better than last ten games. Anyways, what you just used to support your argument that 'at least he's hitting' would be more supportive of, he's getting on base. He's not hitting all that much.

I would love to be able to agree with you. But he's not hitting. I'm still waiting on him to start playing well offensively. To say he's hitting right now is misleading.

He's getting on base. He's making solid contact. Of course it's a small sample size. He's been back since June 30th. He has nothing but small sample sizes. Heck, in baseball, you don't get past small sample size until about 1000 PA's. Some would say 4000 innings. Ten games is certainly a good sample to look at, especially when you compare it with his first ten games. Shocker, it took a guy a while to get his bearing after weeks off. And completely surprising to no one but you, his power hasn't returned to form after tearing a ligament in his hand.

The improvements are there. You just can't see it because in your world, the only thing that counts is home runs. You're not a fan of baseball. You're not a fan of the Nationals. You're certainly no fan of Bryce Harper.

[BH34Natural]

He's getting on base. He's making solid contact. Of course it's a small sample size. He's been back since June 30th. He has nothing but small sample sizes. Heck, in baseball, you don't get past small sample size until about 1000 PA's. Some would say 4000 innings. Ten games is certainly a good sample to look at, especially when you compare it with his first ten games. Shocker, it took a guy a while to get his bearing after weeks off. And completely surprising to no one but you, his power hasn't returned to form after tearing a ligament in his hand.

The improvements are there. You just can't see it because in your world, the only thing that counts is home runs. You're not a fan of baseball. You're not a fan of the Nationals. You're certainly no fan of Bryce Harper.

In my world, WAR and OPS trump everything in terms of stats for a ballplayer. Harper's fWAR is 0.0 this season. He's been worth as many wins as you have this year to the Nationals. His .731 OPS is so pedestrian, there aren't even words for it. But I didn't expect you to admit you might be wrong.

I am a huge baseball fan and love the Nationals. You've said yourself how much I love Bryce Harper which is true. I am also objective and unbiased. Something you are not able to do with any regularity apparently. He is completely over matched and has been for some time and the fact you cannot admit it - whether you aren't seeing it or don't want to see it - says a lot about how you view the game. It has nothing to do with being a fan and everything to do with knowing the game. He's been horrible offensively, worse in the field, and about as bad as you can be on the basepaths. You are wrong, sir. 

[Slateman]

Clearly you're not. You would understand the problem with those numbers in light of Bryce's injury. Bryce has been meh at the plate, still has issues on the basepaths, and fine in the field. He's right where he is expected to be coming off a ligament tear and six weeks without MLB level play.

[BH34Natural]

Clearly you're not. You would understand the problem with those numbers in light of Bryce's injury. Bryce has been meh at the plate, still has issues on the basepaths, and fine in the field. He's right where he is expected to be coming off a ligament tear and six weeks without MLB level play.

He looks awful at the plate, come on man. Who are you lying to here? Completely overmatched 80% of the time, and you can't blame the injury because his swing was a mess prior to it. This is a Bryce issue not an injury issue.

He's also -5.7 WAR defensively; that is not 'fine' in the field. He was a 8.3 WAR in 2012 defensively. That is valuable. He's actually been an immense liability in the field according to the most reliable metrics we have, and the eye ball test of course.

[Slateman]

Completely overmatched, yet walking at a good rate? Hes +2 DRS this season in LF. They eyeball test agrees with it.

Bryce is coming off not one but two injuries. The knee and the TORN LIGAMENT in his hand. Josh Hamilton had the same injury, still no power. Molina has the same injury and will probably be out for 12 weeks. It's a serious injury and he's probably not going to get back full until the offseason. Since coming back he has a OBP of .341 and a walk rate of over 14%. Thats good for a guy who hasn't looked at MLB pitching for 100 ABs. Zim was no where near that at the same point in this season. Ramos was similarly bad.

What you're looking for is not in the stats. If the Nationals had used your reasoning, Zimmerman and Ramos would be on the bench. Harper is slowly getting better at the plate.

[BH34Natural]

Completely overmatched, yet walking at a good rate? Hes +2 DRS this season in LF. They eyeball test agrees with it.

Bryce is coming off not one but two injuries. The knee and the TORN LIGAMENT in his hand. Josh Hamilton had the same injury, still no power. Molina has the same injury and will probably be out for 12 weeks. It's a serious injury and he's probably not going to get back full until the offseason. Since coming back he has a OBP of .341 and a walk rate of over 14%. Thats good for a guy who hasn't looked at MLB pitching for 100 ABs. Zim was no where near that at the same point in this season. Ramos was similarly bad.

What you're looking for is not in the stats. If the Nationals had used your reasoning, Zimmerman and Ramos would be on the bench. Harper is slowly getting better at the plate.

He is a .250 hitter, with a .740 OPS since April 2013 ended. I wish it weren't the case and I assume if it wasn't this discussion wouldn't be needed, because I would be "on Harper's jock" as you said in prior moments.

[UMDNats]

it's almost like being injured for most of the last 2 seasons has an effect on a 21-year-old major leaguer who still needs work to reach his full potential

[mmzznnxx]

it's almost like being injured for most of the last 2 seasons has an effect on a 21-year-old major leaguer who still needs work to reach his full potential

Maybe he shouldn't keep injuring himself then. He's like the scarecrow from Wizard of Oz.

[Slateman]

He is a .250 hitter, with a .740 OPS since April 2013 ended. I wish it weren't the case and I assume if it wasn't this discussion wouldn't be needed, because I would be "on Harper's jock" as you said in prior moments.

And? What part of serious injury do you not understand? Who tears a ligament in their hand and comes back with no ill effects? Who puts off knee surgery for months and keeps hitting like before being injured?

[ZimW1N]

You're using 'SSS' small sample size to tilt stats more in support of the incorrect point you're trying to prove. I think a month is a better body of work of the overall picture, certainly better than last ten games. Anyways, what you just used to support your argument that 'at least he's hitting' would be more supportive of, he's getting on base. He's not hitting all that much.

I would love to be able to agree with you. But he's not hitting. I'm still waiting on him to start playing well offensively. To say he's hitting right now is misleading.

Harper is playing the best baseball he has all season right now, since his return on June 30 until July 30th (I couldn't use the Phillies series because it's not in BR's game log yet) Harper has hit .231/.341/.346 for a pedestrian .687 OPS. His numbers since coming back look a lot better however if you split them before and after the all star break; from June 30th til July 13th Harper produced a putrid stat line of .150/.244/.250 in 46 plate appearances with a 5/16 BB/K. If you look at his numbers since the all star break he has been a lot better with a triple slash of .316/.435/.447 in the same amount of PAs (46) with a 8/10 BB/K.

Now I know that 46 PAs isn't enough to declare him out of the woods yet but to say that Harper looks lost at the plate right now is bordering on being asinine.

[BH34Natural]

And? What part of serious injury do you not understand? Who tears a ligament in their hand and comes back with no ill effects? Who puts off knee surgery for months and keeps hitting like before being injured?

Only a month of that has been recovery from ligament tear. The other year of it he was just mediocre

[BH34Natural]

Harper is playing the best baseball he has all season right now, since his return on June 30 until July 30th (I couldn't use the Phillies series because it's not in BR's game log yet) Harper has hit .231/.341/.346 for a pedestrian .687 OPS. His numbers since coming back look a lot better however if you split them before and after the all star break; from June 30th til July 13th Harper produced a putrid stat line of .150/.244/.250 in 46 plate appearances with a 5/16 BB/K. If you look at his numbers since the all star break he has been a lot better with a triple slash of .316/.435/.447 in the same amount of PAs (46) with a 8/10 BB/K.

Now I know that 46 PAs isn't enough to declare him out of the woods yet but to say that Harper looks lost at the plate right now is bordering on being asinine.

I know a lot of people, unbiased baseball fans who watch Harper almost every night who could care less if he's bad or if he's the second coming of Mickey Mantle and they ask "why does he get all the hype, I watch him and he's not even that good". I am sorry but at this point he is a very mediocre baseball player right now and to this point. I would never, ever say that if he wasn't. No one at this stage in the media or broadcasting would call him a "phenom" anymore, because that has washed away.

[Slateman]

Only a month of that has been recovery from ligament tear. The other year of it he was just mediocre

Guess we're going to igonore the knee injury that required surgery?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

He is a .250 hitter, with a .740 OPS since April 2013 ended. I wish it weren't the case and I assume if it wasn't this discussion wouldn't be needed, because I would be "on Harper's jock" as you said in prior moments.

Completely overmatched, yet walking at a good rate? Hes +2 DRS this season in LF. They eyeball test agrees with it.

Bryce is coming off not one but two injuries. The knee and the TORN LIGAMENT in his hand. Josh Hamilton had the same injury, still no power. Molina has the same injury and will probably be out for 12 weeks. It's a serious injury and he's probably not going to get back full until the offseason. Since coming back he has a OBP of .341 and a walk rate of over 14%. Thats good for a guy who hasn't looked at MLB pitching for 100 ABs. Zim was no where near that at the same point in this season. Ramos was similarly bad.

What you're looking for is not in the stats. If the Nationals had used your reasoning, Zimmerman and Ramos would be on the bench. Harper is slowly getting better at the plate.

Did it dawn on both of you guys that you both could be right?  Look, for much of the past 2 years he's been injured and has played below the level you'd expect of a healthy Bryce Harper in a groove and normal development path for a guy of his skills (point for BH).  The low fWAR is partially driven by the missed games (replacement adjustment for a full season of play is 2.0 WAr or 20 runs; positional adjustment for LF is -.75 WAR or 7.5 runs). The numbers you are throwing around in terms of short term DRS and UZR probably cluster around saying he's no Brett Gardner in the field but he's no Michael Morse / Raul Ibanez, either.  There are some signs since the All Star break that he may be coming around offensively (point for Slate).  Seems like his pitch recognition and plate discipline is coming around if he's drawing BBs.  He's had some multi-hit games, too.  The power is still not there, but there's only so much you can expect so soon off a hand injury.

Bottom line, can BH agree Harper's showing some signs of improvement, and can Slate agree that his performance has been off for much of the year?

I'll stop channeling my inner John Kerry now.

[ZimW1N]

I know a lot of people, unbiased baseball fans who watch Harper almost every night who could care less if he's bad or if he's the second coming of Mickey Mantle and they ask "why does he get all the hype, I watch him and he's not even that good". I am sorry but at this point he is a very mediocre baseball player right now and to this point. I would never, ever say that if he wasn't. No one at this stage in the media or broadcasting would call him a "phenom" anymore, because that has washed away.

How fun for them? What does that have to do with the fact that he had a slow start to the season and has played better since the ASB? I don't think that anyone is denying that Harper hasn't been the same since he hit the wall in LA but he is starting to come out of it and play at the level he is capable. I don't even like Bryce all that much but anyone who has watched him with any regularity should be able to see that.

[Ray D]

He's also -5.7 WAR defensively;   ....  He was a 8.3 WAR in 2012 defensively.

If those numbers are accurate it only shows what a joke defensive WAR is.   (1) No leftfielder could have that much impact in leftfield, positive or negative, as -5.7 games.  (2) No way he added that much value in the outfield in 2012.    Both numbers are absurd.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

If those numbers are accurate it only shows what a joke defensive WAR is.   (1) No leftfielder could have that much impact in leftfield, positive or negative, as -5.7 games.  (2) No way he added that much value in the outfield in 2012.    Both numbers are absurd.

that's -5.7 runs, not games.  that's about 0.5 games, which is well within the noise, especially for a partial season.  The number for 2012 was also runs, not games.  FWIW, I don't think there is a ballplayer, even Adam Dunn in left, who has ranked -5 WAR on defense for a season.

[Slateman]

Miggy at third

I never said he hasn't been disappointing. I simply gave reasons for that disappointment and showed why he is getting better. BH34, OTOH, demands that he be a baseball god immediately because of the hype train and believes that anything less makes him a complete failure.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Miggy at third

The one year he was -40 runs was in 2008, and that was UZR/150 based on 116 innings, or about 1/10th of a season.  over 5900 innings at 3d, he's -41.3 runs on UZR - that's about -8 runs a year.

[Ray D]

I went to the game tonight, and have not been able to find any replay of the ball Harper missed, so I have only seen it live. Live, it looked to me like he was lost on the play and misplayed it, but I'd like to hear from others who had the benefit of seeing it on TV and seeing replays.

[mmzznnxx]

I went to the game tonight, and have not been able to find any replay of the ball Harper missed, so I have only seen it live. Live, it looked to me like he was lost on the play and misplayed it, but I'd like to hear from others who had the benefit of seeing it on TV and seeing replays.

It was a sky high ball that was changing directory. He had plenty time to get under it. It was tough to read but should have been caught, especially with the expectations Harper has. The ball was flying tonight and crazy, but that was pretty much the only huge misplay.