Offseason moves?

[HalfSmokes]

Because he's not the key to the team.  They didn't lose games because of ALR, they lost it because they couldn't hold leads and got nothing from their bench or back of the rotation.  If those pieces performed at 2012 levels, it might have been a different season.

so the fact that they got nothing from a (the?) premiere offensive position has less to do with losing than getting nothing from the bench (which is expected to be terrible)

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Our every day line up will still be productive when healthy.  ALR isn't counted on to carry as much weight in this offense because we have hitters at SS, C, and probably 2d with some development from Rendon.  I'm much more concerned about the drag [potential injury replacement for unknown regular] is on the line up than ALR in our regular line up.

[HalfSmokes]

Our every day line up will still be productive when healthy.  ALR isn't counted on to carry as much weight in this offense because we have hitters at SS, C, and probably 2d with some development from Rendon.  I'm much more concerned about the drag [potential injury replacement for unknown regular] is on the line up than ALR in our regular line up.

having suck penciled in at first exaggerates any drag from [potential injury replacement for unknown regular]

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Yes, but it points out that what makes more sense than ridding yourself of .250 hitting, 20+ HR 1st baseman with a good glove is making sure you have better than a replacement player backing up your regulars.

[HalfSmokes]

Yes, but it points out that what makes more sense than ridding yourself of .250 hitting, 20+ HR 1st baseman with a good glove is making sure you have better than a replacement player backing up your regulars.

except finding someone decent to sit on the bench 1) limits their at bats and 2) means that you either have to find a veteran willing to take that role (meaning they probably aren't good enough to get a job as a starter) or you have to hope a young player can preform in very limited at bats.

[Mattionals]

the season really revolves around harper's development. if he stays healthy and hits like we know he can, our offense will be good. if not then this year will repeat itself. i also expect some improvement from rendon on both sides so that should benefit us as well.

I agree.  Harper is already a talented hitter, but if he takes off and becomes a true force in the lineup who can comfortably bat 3rd or 4th and hit .300/.400/.600 with 30+ HR then the team shouldn't worry at all about LaRoche.  I think Harper actually can do that, but he has to stay healthy and get much better at hitting lefties in order to put those kinds of numbers up.

The holes are fairly well known on this team.  The bench has been terrible, but guys like Bernadina and Tracy are already gone.  The Nats have to get decent production out of Moore, Lombo and Brown in order to compete.  The other bench spots should be an upgrade over the backup catcher, someone like Jose Molina and the final bench spot.  Right now the only true outfielder is Brown with Lombo and Moore lumbering around in LF.  I don't think Perez has enough value tied up within his defense and speed to offset his bat.  I could see the team trying to flip Lombo and instill Espinosa in his place.  The bullpen can be rebuilt with some FA acquistions.

[sph274]

except finding someone decent to sit on the bench 1) limits their at bats and 2) means that you either have to find a veteran willing to take that role (meaning they probably aren't good enough to get a job as a starter) or you have to hope a young player can preform in very limited at bats.

one of the reasons the red sox were so successful is they had a solid veteran bench. having a solid bench with replacement level players makes a huge difference. spending a decent amount on solid backups can be better than splurging on big name guys. what bench guy should we target this offseason? i dont think john buck is a starter. decent back up. how do we shore up the bullpen?

[HalfSmokes]

the red sox had a great bench because Napoli failed a physical and they had guys come up and play well

[sph274]

the red sox had a great bench because Napoli failed a physical and they had guys come up and play well

they would have had the same team if napoli passed it. gomes and ross are what make that bench. we just need to "overpay" for a solid backup guy, not chad tracy or bernadina

[HalfSmokes]

Gomes had a good year, but ross was terrible

[Mattionals]

Gomes had a good year, but ross was terrible

Ross hit when it mattered in the postseason.  Also Ross had a bad year, but he wasn't there as a solid hitter, he was there to provide catching defense.  He pretty much gave you Kurt Suzuki off the bench and was above replacement level.  Solid.

[skippy1999]

Gomes had a good year, but ross was terrible

That's a little unfair, I think Ross was concussed for a bunch of the season. 

[HalfSmokes]

Ross hit when it mattered in the postseason.  Also Ross had a bad year, but he wasn't there as a solid hitter, he was there to provide catching defense.  He pretty much gave you Kurt Suzuki off the bench and was above replacement level.  Solid.

so we need a defensive catcher and a middling outfielder to take us from missing the post season to world series champs?

[sph274]

so we need a defensive catcher and a middling outfielder to take us from missing the post season to world series champs?

ross was indeed injured most of the year but his contract is solid and he around next year. he swings the bat pretty well he is more than a defensive catcher. Suzuki, Espinosa, Lombo, Bernadina and Tracy has a WAR of -2.4. Gomes, Carp and Ross alone had a WAR of 3.2. 5 or 6 more wins is a playoff berth. The playoffs are in many cases a crap shoot. a team with our rotation can do pretty well there

[HalfSmokes]

The playoffs are in many cases a crap shoot. a team with our rotation can do pretty well there

In that case, why emulate the red sox as opposed to any other team? (and Ross wasn't more than a defensive catcher last year- he hit .216 with no power)

[sph274]

In that case, why emulate the red sox as opposed to any other team? (and Ross wasn't more than a defensive catcher last year- he hit .216 with no power)

most of the good playoff teams had solid benches, i used the red sox because they won the series. and yea ross was injured most of the year with concussion problems but has been very good with the bat for the past 5 years or so.

[HalfSmokes]

and yea ross was injured most of the year with concussion problems but has been very good with the bat for the past 5 years or so.

if you're evaluating last year, how are the last five years relevant?

[sph274]

if you're evaluating last year, how are the last five years relevant?

yea i meant to include outside of last year but freaked up. last year he had concussion problems which are hard to come back from and can freak with your timing. he had a down year due to injury but if you look at the previous years, where he was healthy, he has been very good. even outside of this, as a backup catcher last year an OPS of .681 is not horrible especially with his above average d(so ok maybe he was "a defensive catcher" last year). waaay better than what suzuki gave us. the whole point is having a decent bench can indeed be the difference between missing the playoffs and being successful in them. especially on an NL team. so yes, we missed the playoffs because we did not have a few middling bench bats and backups that could provide any sort of positive value. there are many different ways to build a bench, the cards did it through the farm but when you cant do that you buy them on the market. we need to do that this year. lombo is not very good and nobody trusts moore

[HalfSmokes]

yea i meant to include outside of last year but freaked up. last year he had concussion problems which are hard to come back from and can freak with your timing. he had a down year due to injury but if you look at the previous years, where he was healthy, he has been very good. even outside of this, as a backup catcher last year an OPS of .681 is not horrible especially with his above average d(so ok maybe he was "a defensive catcher" last year). waaay better than what suzuki gave us. the whole point is having a decent bench can indeed be the difference between missing the playoffs and being successful in them. especially on an NL team. so yes, we missed the playoffs because we did not have a few middling bench bats and a backup that could provide any sort of positive value

so the template isn't what the red sox got out of ross, but what they expected to get? I still what to know how you actually get a successful bench- going into the season (at least based on what you're saying) you could expect Ross to produce, he didn't. Going into the season, Carp had never produced and Gomes was hit or miss- they both produced. Meanwhile, Moore, Lombo, and Tracy were all coming off of decent years- maybe the secret to a good bench is luck?

[sph274]

so the template isn't what the red sox got out of ross, but what they expected to get? I still what to know how you actually get a successful bench- going into the season (at least based on what you're saying) you could expect Ross to produce, he didn't. Going into the season, Carp had never produced and Gomes was hit or miss- they both produced. Meanwhile, Moore, Lombo, and Tracy were all coming off of decent years- maybe the secret to a good bench is luck?

Carp had an OPS of .791 as a 25 year old followed by an injury plagued season stuck behind Justin Smoak and Jesus Montero on the depth chart. He had a great year but was kind of expected to produce. Gomes always mashes left handers and had a worse season this year than he did last year. He is def more than "hit or miss". he is a solid bench bat that wont carry your team but can be expected to add at least some positive value. and while ross didn't completely live up to expectations he was still able to provide some value. we gambled on some of our younger players and they did not perform. maybe we shouldnt go into next season with the same mindset. we dont have tracy or bernadina. Our backup catchers suck. here is a FA list. how should we make a bench that has a chance at being successful?
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/potential-free-agents-for-2014/

[blue911]

The 2012 bench got a lot of great production from 3 guys widely criticized as being terrible.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats_team.cgi?full=1&params=stsub%7Cas%20Sub%7CWSN%7C2012%7Cbat%7CAB%7C

[HalfSmokes]

all back up catchers suck, that's why they're back up catchers. I think bench and bullpen are just luck. A decent free agent is going to want a shot to start, so you have to take a shot or you have to hope that a minor leaguer can produce as a part time player, and bullpen arms are too variable for year to year to judge until they actually start pitching

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I would say another good bench veteran the Nats had here a few years ago was Alex Cora.  Retired, of course, but spending $1.5MM on a quality bench player or two is not a bad investment. Trade a prospect for Greg Dobbs, for example. 

The key is multiple options and survival of the fittest.  Don't be afraid to cut a guy who is not cutting it.  you can do that with multiple veterans who can fill the bench role and system prospects who can fill in when there is a longer term injury.

[blue911]

I would say another good bench veteran the Nats had here a few years ago was Alex Cora.  Retired, of course, but spending $1.5MM on a quality bench player or two is not a bad investment. Trade a prospect for Greg Dobbs, for example. 

The key is multiple options and survival of the fittest.  Don't be afraid to cut a guy who is not cutting it.  you can do that with multiple veterans who can fill the bench role and system prospects who can fill in when there is a longer term injury.

   

Dobbs? Now you're just trolling.

[sph274]

yea not really sure why you picked dobbs....