WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact

[UMDNats]

I've waited almost a week to repost my hunch, but I'm thinking John Angelos works a deal to get an expansion franchise in Nashville and gives up his ownership rights in the Os to MLB.  The Os become a ward of MLB, like the Nats in 2003-06 and are sold to a new group that keeps them in Baltimore. MLB would release the Nats broadcast rights to the Nats or sell MASN to Leonsis.

That seems like a decent hunch, but an expansion team in Nashville with John Angelos in charge seems really aggressive for where MLB to Nashville stands right now. The "group" pushing for it locally has been very loud in their desire to be the first black-owned MLB team (aka they are forcing any potential owners to include them) and an Angelos kid bringing a team here is a surefire way to start with complete apathy. Plus, the state and city are paying for a new Titans stadium and I'm not sure Angelos has the money, desire or interest in self-funding a stadium in the suburbs. The Titans stadium has been a super hot issue and there's not really a good place downtown for a stadium, though this is probably a Cobb County-type situation for MLB anyways if you know what I mean.

Also does Manfred have the energy, ability or interest in working out a deal like this? He is lazy, unimaginative and disinterested in actually doing commissioner-type work.

[Slateman]

A couple of people on Baltimore sports talk radio are saying there's 0.0 percent chance the O's move.

They are correct

[JCA-CrystalCity]

That seems like a decent hunch, but an expansion team in Nashville with John Angelos in charge seems really aggressive for where MLB to Nashville stands right now. The "group" pushing for it locally has been very loud in their desire to be the first black-owned MLB team (aka they are forcing any potential owners to include them) and an Angelos kid bringing a team here is a surefire way to start with complete apathy. Plus, the state and city are paying for a new Titans stadium and I'm not sure Angelos has the money, desire or interest in self-funding a stadium in the suburbs. The Titans stadium has been a super hot issue and there's not really a good place downtown for a stadium, though this is probably a Cobb County-type situation for MLB anyways if you know what I mean.

Also does Manfred have the energy, ability or interest in working out a deal like this? He is lazy, unimaginative and disinterested in actually doing commissioner-type work.

I suspect that MLB forces a partnership similar to how they forced John Henry onto Werner and Otten to buy the Red Sox.  The trick will be to give Angelos enough while also making it clear this is MLB's first black-owned team.  Maybe a right of first refusal or an option. I'm not smart enough business-wise to figure this out.

[Five Banners]

Is Baltimore viable without the MASN deal? It's a minuscule market that would have an almost non-excitant media footprint

A smart staff could market harder in central Pennsylvania and east and west from the mountains to the coast. But either way, the current powers that be in MLB could solve the immediate issue and then leave them as a relocation stalking horse going forward.

A big difference in these markets both in keeping the team and getting stadium deals done was the amount of clout to the city has over the state. The main reason for the 60s expansion and the later relocation out of here seemed to relate in large part to not having any powerful congressmen and governors to make MLB think twice as well as come up with enough of a sweetheart deal to make a difference.

The Colts move was kind of the opening salvo for the latest NFL relocation and stadium chasing wave. I think birdland may get a lot of political chances at that to not have the same occur.

[UMDNats]

I suspect that MLB forces a partnership similar to how they forced John Henry onto Werner and Otten to buy the Red Sox.  The trick will be to give Angelos enough while also making it clear this is MLB's first black-owned team.  Maybe a right of first refusal or an option. I'm not smart enough business-wise to figure this out.

I just can't see John Angelos, a known POS, being amiable for that. You're right that MLB could make terms, but the Angelos family as a whole are complete bastards so I'd be shocked if he lets like Dave Stewart get credit or recognition.

[Elvir Ovcina]

I suspect that MLB forces a partnership similar to how they forced John Henry onto Werner and Otten to buy the Red Sox.  The trick will be to give Angelos enough while also making it clear this is MLB's first black-owned team.  Maybe a right of first refusal or an option. I'm not smart enough business-wise to figure this out.

I'm not sure this comes out as a total sale.  I could see the Rays headed up there with Sternberg retaining a minority stake, thus reducing the buy-in.  Angelos could come in as another minority owner with someone with any - please, any - actual connections to Nashville up front.

[HalfSmokes]

A smart staff could market harder in central Pennsylvania and east and west from the mountains to the coast. But either way, the current powers that be in MLB could solve the immediate issue and then leave them as a relocation stalking horse going forward.

A big difference in these markets both in keeping the team and getting stadium deals done was the amount of clout to the city has over the state. The main reason for the 60s expansion and the later relocation out of here seemed to relate in large part to not having any powerful congressmen and governors to make MLB think twice as well as come up with enough of a sweetheart deal to make a difference.

The Colts move was kind of the opening salvo for the latest NFL relocation and stadium chasing wave. I think birdland may get a lot of political chances at that to not have the same occur.

Marketing to a state where they two largest cities each have teams at opposite ends of the state seems like a losing proposition

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I'm not sure this comes out as a total sale.  I could see the Rays headed up there with Sternberg retaining a minority stake, thus reducing the buy-in.  Angelos could come in as another minority owner with someone with any - please, any - actual connections to Nashville up front.

gotta think that Nashville would be worth more than the Os, and that Angelos might want to take some money out of the eventual Os sale.  If that's true, then he could be a minority owner in the Nashville franchise, perhaps in exchange for his majority stake in the Os plus absolution for some or all of the money owed in the MASN reset.

[UMDNats]

Marketing to a state where they two largest cities each have teams at opposite ends of the state seems like a losing proposition

People far and wide think of Baltimore as a crap city with really annoying football fans so I'm sure JoePa Jr. in State College is ready to pledge allegiance to Birdland.

[UMDNats]

gotta think that Nashville would be worth more than the Os, and that Angelos might want to take some money out of the eventual Os sale.  If that's true, then he could be a minority owner in the Nashville franchise, perhaps in exchange for his majority stake in the Os plus absolution for some or all of the money owed in the MASN reset.

You're thinking about this logically and as a lawyer. Remember: for years Angelos and the Orioles organization has acted in bad faith in this legal dispute, so why would that change now?

[IanRubbish]

Is Baltimore viable without the MASN deal? It's a minuscule market that would have an almost non-excitant media footprint

Not really.  Most markets smaller than Denver are struggling.   St. Louis and San Diego don't have the NFL and San Diego has embraced the Padres like never before since the Chargers left and their front office started gunning for talent.  It's also my favorite ballpark + neighborhood experience in MLB. 

Camden Yards has struggled since the new stadium smell wore off, whereas Petco is in its 20th year and will probably set an attendance record this year.  We'll see what happens with Baltimore this year given the young, exciting team there, but they need to everything to go right to top 20k per game now.  Pittsburgh has similar issues but the stadium area there is much safer.

[welch]

Maybe the Orioles should rename themselves the Browns move back to St. Louis, a baseball-crazed town with only the NHL Blues competing with the Cardinals. St. Louis might get an MLS team, but that would not be serious competition.

Would MASN make money if it paid the Nats?

[imref]

Baltimore is listed as the 28th biggest media market in the US, just ahead of Nashville and behind San Diego. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

[IanRubbish]

Baltimore is listed as the 28th biggest media market in the US, just ahead of Nashville and behind San Diego. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

Latest update has Nashville surpassing it, and Salt Lake likely to pass it next year.   https://ustvdb.com/seasons/2022-23/markets/

7 markets - Sac, Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte, Indy, Portland, Nashville, and soon Salt Lake, have no MLB and are larger than Baltimore, while also growing faster.   Baltimore also has some of the lowest ticket and concession prices in the league.  They need everything to go right to draw fans.

North Carolina and Tennessee are interesting because with Memphis having the NBA and Raleigh-Durham having the NHL, MLB doesn't have to worry about another sport coming in and taking more of Charlotte's and Nashville's spend capacity, especially with both markets now having MLS.  There's little time pressure as a result even though they are both now more "major league" than Baltimore.

[welch]

Baltimore is listed as the 28th biggest media market in the US, just ahead of Nashville and behind San Diego. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

That would make Baltimore a top-class AAA city, right there with Columbus and Indianapolis and the rest. Perhaps MLB has too many cities already, and expansion will just make that worse. Of course, a TV market does not make a baseball town. Consider Miami and Tampa. Or consider places that their teams draw well enough but the games stretches to something odd...as in Denver.

[HalfSmokes]

Latest update has Nashville surpassing it, and Salt Lake likely to pass it next year.   https://ustvdb.com/seasons/2022-23/markets/

7 markets - Sac, Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte, Indy, Portland, Nashville, and soon Salt Lake, have no MLB and are larger than Baltimore, while also growing faster.   Baltimore also has some of the lowest ticket and concession prices in the league.  They need everything to go right to draw fans.

North Carolina and Tennessee are interesting because with Memphis having the NBA and Raleigh-Durham having the NHL, MLB doesn't have to worry about another sport coming in and taking more of Charlotte's and Nashville's spend capacity, especially with both markets now having MLS.  There's little time pressure as a result even though they are both now more "major league" than Baltimore.

Charlotte has NFL and NBA

[nfotiu]

I'm not sure size of a media market matters all that much any more.   It didn't really matter a whole lot in the RSN world.   It was all about getting everyone in multi state tv territories to pay carriage fees.   It's hard to predict what the new model will look like, but the size of the media market probably doesn't really come into play.   What will end up probably mattering most is what teams have the most people who actually watch on TV and in person.   The A's, Diamondbacks and Marlins all are a little worse than the Orioles in that regard and are in large media markets.   Nats will be on a pretty strong downward trajectory too that is going to be a hard hole to climb out of.

[Slateman]

Baltimore's market includes DC though. Especially the Orioles.

[Senatorswin]

People in the suburbs of Baltimore dread going into the city anymore. It's hard to quantify that when comparing cities but it affects attendance.

[welch]

Baltimore's market includes DC though. Especially the Orioles.

Yes, that's what Angelos claimed. Of course, that was news to Washingtonians.

[imref]

People in the suburbs of Baltimore dread going into the city anymore. It's hard to quantify that when comparing cities but it affects attendance.

we last went for the camden yards anniversary game last season. They had several sections in the LF upper deck blocked off. It was sad to see that they couldn't even fill the stadium for such a big game that featured a ton of returning legends.

I've posted about this before. While the stadium is beautiful, the experience of watching a game there is worse than any other stadium that i've been to in recent memory. Having to wait forever on concession lines, and trying to view an ancient low-brightness/resolution video board make it feel more like an AAA+ stadium than a major league ballpark.

[Slateman]

People in the suburbs of Baltimore dread going into the city anymore. It's hard to quantify that when comparing cities but it affects attendance.

People in the suburbs of any city dread going into the city right now. Cities suck.

Yes, that's what Angelos claimed. Of course, that was news to Washingtonians.

Except for all the Orioles fans in the DMV. Theres still a whole lot of people who grew up rooting for the Orioles, even in Virginia. Every Marylander has a greater claim to being an Orioles fan than a Nats fan at this point.

Baltimore's media market overlaps with DC's at this point.

[Five Banners]

People in the suburbs of any city dread going into the city right now. Cities suck.
Except for all the Orioles fans in the DMV. Theres still a whole lot of people who grew up rooting for the Orioles, even in Virginia. Every Marylander has a greater claim to being an Orioles fan than a Nats fan at this point.

Baltimore's media market overlaps with DC's at this point.

It always seemed to make sense for them to just focus on exploiting that foothold, market themselves as Maryland’s team, and subtly market that and AL baseball in Montgomery and PG County, especially as even the Caps were reportedly indicating the lion’s share the fanbase was coming from Virginia. Instead, the worst outcome for everybody is what seemed to prevail.

[imref]

People in the suburbs of any city dread going into the city right now. Cities suck.

I go into DC at least monthly and don't dread it at all. Gotta stop listening to propaganda.

[Five Banners]

I go into DC at least monthly and don't dread it at all. Gotta stop listening to propaganda.

As mentioned here before, it was team workers working on pedestrian control who were warning me when we were leaving this year’s season opener early not to go in certain directions to find a cab because of specific, not vague, safety concerns. Then there was the guy who was walking from the area on the southwest side to meet me for a game who said a kid lobbed a rock at his head.

Another time, it was people spoiling for a fight in the Metro according to someone coming to meet me. Then before a recent Sunday day game, some geniuses coming up across M Street while waiting for the light to change and playing the “who do you think you’re looking at” game despite my not inconsiderable stature. There was also the pleasure of encountering the sidewalk scooter squads when walking with young kids or people with mobility issues.

On the general DC side, i’ll also throw this in – – third hand, so take it for what it’s worth. One of my wife’s coworkers, a woman who works near union station reportedly accosted by some young guy during the workday at union station. For those who haven’t heard, Starbucks is closed at union station, which reportedly had largely become an indoor housing encampment:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/starbucks-closing-16-us-stores-including-union-station-for-safety-issues/3100255/

The kicker is that when this woman reported this to an officer there, she was reportedly told that she should’ve hit him back.

This is on the recent side of things. No one is saying that DC is an abattoir of death for all who enter. However, it’s also not propaganda to look at these things square in the eye and how things stand as far as paying top dollar for entertainment options and including this in the cost and benefit, especially if it does involve kids, older folks, and so forth.