WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact

[BigMeech]

I assume the broadcast rights for the Nationals would be pretty high considering we have players like Strasburg and Harper to go along with a core that will probably be good for a very long time, right?

[HalfSmokes]

I assume the broadcast rights for the Nationals would be pretty high considering we have players like Strasburg and Harper to go along with a core that will probably be good for a very long time, right?

I would think it's all about market size- the deals for rights fees lately have been decade(s) long, so that would likely eclipse their careers

[natspride]

The take of our brethren to the north. 


http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/128960-MLB-seeks-creative-solution-to-MASN-rights-fees-dispute-between-Nationals-Orioles

[Rasta]

The take of our brethren to the north. 


http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/128960-MLB-seeks-creative-solution-to-MASN-rights-fees-dispute-between-Nationals-Orioles

Man, some of those O's fans are idiots.  It's like they don't understand that in the contract there is an every 5 year "reset period".  There were a couple of intelligent fans who understood that it all comes down to the language of the contract when it comes to what the reset period is based on.  Is it fair market value?  Is it based on MASN's profitability?  There are so many things we don't know.  Obviously, the Nats believe it's strictly on fair market value thus asking for over 100M per year. 

This is going to be really interesting.  I think both owners have basically threatened Selig with lawsuits so he's taking every possible avenue to keep both happy.  I just want Angelos out of it if is is at all possible.  No way do I want to deal with that dbag every 5 years. 

[jhuterp]

Man, some of those O's fans are idiots.  It's like they don't understand that in the contract there is an every 5 year "reset period".  There were a couple of intelligent fans who understood that it all comes down to the language of the contract when it comes to what the reset period is based on.  Is it fair market value?  Is it based on MASN's profitability?  There are so many things we don't know.  Obviously, the Nats believe it's strictly on fair market value thus asking for over 100M per year. 

This is going to be really interesting.  I think both owners have basically threatened Selig with lawsuits so he's taking every possible avenue to keep both happy.  I just want Angelos out of it if is is at all possible.  No way do I want to deal with that dbag every 5 years. 

Luckily at his age, this may be the last time the Nationals have to deal w/Angelos (am I wrong for thinking this?)

[tomterp]

This is a good point by Frobby:

I think the efforts to "shop" MASN may be a back door way of trying to see what the rights fees are really worth, instead of relying on tesimony of "experts" as to how the DC market compares with other markets where lucrative deals have been struck.

[Mattionals]

Blows fans will be blows fans.  I'm just sad to see so many of them don't like the Nats because they "came into their turf".  That is total BS since D.C. was a baseball town before Baltimore (1886 vs. 1892).  Plus Baltimore is a smaller market (yea, I said it) than D.C. is.

Be happy that someone will buy MASN and everyone wins with more money.

[Lintyfresh85]

If you read a lot of the later posts you'll see some rational talk by some O's fans.

[HalfSmokes]

I agree with mcgraw238

Seems to me this will end in litigation or a creative solution.

too much money at stake for splitting the difference to placate either side

[NJ Ave]

Angelos can litigate all he wants. It's pretty clear that when he signed the agreement with the 5-year reset, he didn't expect the "fair market value" to change the way it has in just 5 years.

Any arbitrator in the country is going to use the latest TV rights deals to set a FMV, so I don't care if this eventually goes to court or not. Angelos doesn't have a leg to stand on, and is basically relying on whining about how it's costing him more than expected. That's not a defense.

In any case, Angelos may have been a great litigator, but that was when he had winning cases (asbestos, smoking, diet pills). THIS is not a winning case. And the Lerners aren't exactly slouches themselves, nor afraid of litigation.

[Kevrock]

If you read a lot of the later posts you'll see some rational talk by some O's fans.

If you read a lot of the earlier posts you'll see some dipcrap talk by some dipcrap fans.

[houston-nat]

This is a good point by Frobby:

Hahaha I thought Frobby was your new nickname for Bill Ladson.

[The Chief]

Can someone sum up what we know about this for me?  I am lazy and do not feel like reading the last umpteen pages of this thread

[HalfSmokes]

Can someone sum up what we know about this for me?  I am lazy and do not feel like reading the last umpteen pages of this thread

anglos wants to pay the nats $34 million per year, the Lerners want north of $100 million. There may or may not be a formula in the contract (no one has actually seen it), and mllb is arbitrating (the owners of the Mets, Pirates and Rays). There was supposed to be a decision around the all star break, now there are reports Selig is trying to get Angelos to sell MASN

[The Chief]

Fun times.  Thanks for the catch-up.

[welch]

Blows fans will be blows fans.  I'm just sad to see so many of them don't like the Nats because they "came into their turf".  That is total BS since D.C. was a baseball town before Baltimore (1886 vs. 1892).  Plus Baltimore is a smaller market (yea, I said it) than D.C. is.

Be happy that someone will buy MASN and everyone wins with more money.

I think Washington had a professional team in the early 1870s...probably called the Nationals. Best I remember is that there were two organized teams, the Potomacs and the Nationals, and the Nationals turned pro. The Potomacs were a group of gentleman clerks from the US government. This is by memory from the Shirley Povich book. Fans began to call the team the "Senators" in the 1880's, but Povich did not know why...and he started covering the team in 1924, so he might have met fans from 1885.

The current Orioles were the StL Browns until about 1954, when they moved into Nats' territory as the Orioles, taking the name of Baltimore's minor-league team. A previous Baltimore Orioles might have been an early member of the American League, maybe the first season, after which they moved to New York as the Highlanders.

Therefore, classic Baltimore baseball is Wee Willie Keeler and the Baltimore Chop. Then the Bush League Baltimore Orioles for more than 50 years.

Washington is a big metropolitan area ("Standard Metropolitan Statistic Area", or SMESA in urban economics). Baltimore is not so big. Simple as that.

[Tyler Durden]

I read a bit from that Orioles forum.  O's fans who are cheerleading Angelos seem mostly interested in just screwing the Nats.  It's not like Angelos is spending MASN profits on the O's.  In fact, if the Nats got $75 mil then the O's would get the same so it might be better for the O's if this panel or Selig just comes down with a decision against Angelos.

[HalfSmokes]

I read a bit from that Orioles forum.  O's fans who are cheerleading Angelos seem mostly interested in just screwing the Nats.  It's not like Angelos is spending MASN profits on the O's.  In fact, if the Nats got $75 mil then the O's would get the same so it might be better for the O's if this panel or Selig just comes down with a decision against Angelos.

except fair market for the nats * 2 is more than MASN's revenue stream, so either the company folds or the Os get screwed

[Tyler Durden]

How do the O's get screwed?  They are getting screwed right now.  Angelos is the only one not getting screwed right now - Angelos is separate from the O's.  He owns MASN and gives the O's $29 mil and the Nats $29 mil.  The rest, he pockets.

[HalfSmokes]

How do the O's get screwed?  They are getting screwed right now.  Angelos is the only one not getting screwed right now - Angelos is separate from the O's.  He owns MASN and gives the O's $29 mil and the Nats $29 mil.  The rest, he pockets.

because MASN's revenue is less than two times what the Nats are asking for (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/20/sports/regional-sports-networks-show-teams-the-money.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&ref=richardsandomir&pagewanted=2&adxnnlx=1355520877-9lflEFBKbCKczXNmVac4IQ) and that doesn't include any other rights fees or expenses. The only way to pay the nats fair market would be to screw the Os. That's not surprising since you'd expect Nats fair market * 2 would be larger than Nats + Os fair market value.

[Tyler Durden]

How do we know what MASN's #s are?  That article quotes an estimate of around $160 mil in revenues in 2011.  So how much will it be in 2013 and going forward?

Also - Angelos and the Nats could settle at a number that works for MASN.  Or at least they could have several months ago before the most recent spate of RSN craziness.  $60 mil might have worked if it was done a year ago.

[PebbleBall]

I think part of Selig's problem is that protecting Angelos would cause him to stop the trend of massive rights deals - something I'm certain he doesn't want to do.

[PebbleBall]

anglos wants to pay the nats $34 million per year, the Lerners want north of $100 million. There may or may not be a formula in the contract (no one has actually seen it), and mllb is arbitrating (the owners of the Mets, Pirates and Rays). There was supposed to be a decision around the all star break, now there are reports Selig is trying to get Angelos to sell MASN

I don't want to belabor the point too much, but according to the WP article it's the broadcast rights for sale, not MASN. 

[HalfSmokes]

How do we know what MASN's #s are?  That article quotes an estimate of around $160 mil in revenues in 2011.  So how much will it be in 2013 and going forward?

there's no way to know exact, but people (like the article's author) can estimate based on going ad rates and carriage rates - I'd trust a NY times 2011 number as a reasonable approximation of 2013 more than random estimates

[Kevrock]

I think part of Selig's problem is that protecting Angelos would cause him to stop the trend of massive rights deals - something I'm certain he doesn't want to do.

Exactly. He kicked McCourt out of MLB for messing with the Dodgers television rights, why would he not want to kill MASN as well?