Author Topic: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact  (Read 203533 times)

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Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
  • Captain Sadness
People throughout baseball are marveling at the Nats - how they did it the right way, how they're set up to win for the next 5-7 years, how well run the organization is, etc. I'd rather be the 17th highest payroll and be in first place than spend $110 million but be the friggin' Cubs.

By having back to back losing seasons when two once in a lifetime talents were available?  If Strasburg hadn't been available would people really be excited over Dustin Ackley?

Offline hammondsnats

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bottom of the barrel payrolls for multiple years, including one where they opened a brand new stadium and trotted out a AAAA roster. 

just stop.

Offline NatsDad14

  • Posts: 5241
Where's the evidence that they're too cheap too successfully run a franchise??

We've had stupid stories about how they made scouts - gasp! - turn in receipts. It's going to RUIN THE FRANCHISE! NO ONE WILL WANT TO WORK FOR THEM!

Instead, we have an ideally-run scouting department that has dramatically improved the franchise.

They can never get a deal done because they're always lowballing - except for Jayson Werth, Edwin Jackson, Adam Laroche, the Ryan Zimmerman/Gio Gonzalez/Michael Morse extensions, and the two best prospects of the past 20 years and highest paid prospects in the history of the game.

They refuse to spend on the major league payroll - The Nats payroll has risen from $63 million in 2006 when the Lerners took over to $92.5 million this year, or a 6.5% per year increase, with no intentions stated or imputed by anyone that is will do anything but rise incrementally over the next few seasons.

People throughout baseball are marveling at the Nats - how they did it the right way, how they're set up to win for the next 5-7 years, how well run the organization is, etc. I'd rather be the 17th highest payroll and be in first place than spend $110 million but be the friggin' Cubs.
Payroll:
2006: 63 Million, 20th
Lerners take over
2007: 37 Million (41% drop), 28th
2008: 55 million, 26th
2009: 60 Million, 27th
2010: 61 Million, 23rd
2011: 64 Million, 22nd
2012: 81 Million, 20th

If you don't see why people thought LAC, I can't help. The Nats payroll was below the MLB run payroll for 4 straight seasons. This is the same MLB that ran the team on the cheap. The payroll only increased by $713,000 in 5 seasons under the Lerners. This is the first season they have bumped the payroll to try to be competive

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

  • Posts: 16254
  • pissy DC sports fan
By having back to back losing seasons when two once in a lifetime talents were available?  If Strasburg hadn't been available would people really be excited over Dustin Ackley?

Lol, I remember some limpdick who used to post here who put Dustin Ackley in his avatar on draft day and tried to convince everyone that the Nats were going to be the real winners when they draft Ackley over the too-demanding, injury prone Stephen Strasburg.

Offline NJ Ave

  • Posts: 3485
You do realize that without Strasburg and Harper they would still be in first or second place in the NL East this year, don't you?

On the other point, every single instance of the "Lerners being cheap" to my memory, was proved to be correct in retrospect.

First it was "OMG U CANT LET SORIANO LEAVE!!!!!"

Then, "DUNN LEAVING! CHEAP AZZ LERNERZ!"

Then, "CHEAP LERNERS TRADE OUR CLOSER FOR STUPID CATCHING PROSPECT"

Then, "LERNERZ WONT PONY UP FOR CARL CRAWFORD WTFFFF!"

Then, "WHY LERNERZ LET DESMOND KEEP PLAYING; SIGN REYEZZZZZZ!" (2.7 WAR to 1.4 WAR)

Then, "CHEAP LERNERZ RATHER PAY EDWIN JACKSON ONE YEAR THAN AWEZOME MARK BUERHLE 5 YEARS!" (1.3 to 1.3)

They've resigned the right players, made insightful trades, given the right guys long leashes, etc.

Offline Mathguy

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You're being silly Hammonds.  It was a franchise on the way down and it rebuilt itself following a strategy for both revenue and expenses

bottom of the barrel payrolls for multiple years, including one where they opened a brand new stadium and trotted out a AAAA roster. 

just stop.


Offline KnorrForYourMoney

  • Posts: 16254
  • pissy DC sports fan
You do realize that without Strasburg and Harper they would still be in first or second place in the NL East this year, don't you?

These are the facts in our minds.

Offline hammondsnats

  • Posts: 37394
You're being silly Hammonds.  It was a franchise on the way down and it rebuilt itself following a strategy for both revenue and expenses

yeah so instead of getting a big bat to a poor line-up they operated the cheap way and got a bunch of retreads!  fun year, great idea :thumbs:

Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
  • Captain Sadness
You do realize that without Strasburg and Harper they would still be in first or second place in the NL East this year, don't you?

You really think Gio would have come here without Strasburg being here?  Come on dude, be real.  And you're really underselling Bryce if you think he isn't a major contributor to the winning the team is having right now.  Without Strasburg and Harper this team would be Kansas City with a hair more talent.

On the other point, every single instance of the "Lerners being cheap" to my memory, was proved to be correct in retrospect.

They've resigned the right players, made insightful trades, given the right guys long leashes, etc.

STOP RIGHT THERE. 

There are three names that come to mind that completely invalidate that statement - Maya, Wang, and Henry Rodriguez.  They give the wrong guys long leashes and will continue to do so.

Offline NatsDad14

  • Posts: 5241
You do realize that without Strasburg and Harper they would still be in first or second place in the NL East this year, don't you?

On the other point, every single instance of the "Lerners being cheap" to my memory, was proved to be correct in retrospect.

First it was "OMG U CANT LET SORIANO LEAVE!!!!!"

Then, "DUNN LEAVING! CHEAP AZZ LERNERZ!"

Then, "CHEAP LERNERS TRADE OUR CLOSER FOR STUPID CATCHING PROSPECT"

Then, "LERNERZ WONT PONY UP FOR CARL CRAWFORD WTFFFF!"

Then, "WHY LERNERZ LET DESMOND KEEP PLAYING; SIGN REYEZZZZZZ!" (2.7 WAR to 1.4 WAR)

Then, "CHEAP LERNERZ RATHER PAY EDWIN JACKSON ONE YEAR THAN AWEZOME MARK BUERHLE 5 YEARS!" (1.3 to 1.3)

They've resigned the right players, made insightful trades, given the right guys long leashes, etc.

How can you say it was correct when the facts don't bear that:
2006: 71 wins
Lerners take over
2007: 73 wins
2008: 59 wins
2009: 59 wins
2010: 69 wins
2011: 80 wins

That's an average of 68 wins. Wait until they have a full season at over .500 before saying they made all the correct moves. They are the reason why the rebuild took so long.

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 11493
  • Sunshine Squad 2022
Until the Nats stop resigning their own in-their-prime talent, there's simply no evidence that the Lerners are cheap, beyond the fact that they run a successful business the way most successful businessmen would and don't make as many dumb decisions as some other owners do.
Been saying this for years! :clap:

It might be nice to spend $175 million to win 97 games every year rather than $100 million to win 92 games every year, but it doesn't matter in the playoffs. 4 out of the last 6 WS champs have finished the regular season with 92 victories or fewer. It's not a requisite.
Nice!

Where's the evidence that they're too cheap too successfully run a franchise??

We've had stupid stories about how they made scouts - gasp! - turn in receipts. It's going to RUIN THE FRANCHISE! NO ONE WILL WANT TO WORK FOR THEM!

Instead, we have an ideally-run scouting department that has dramatically improved the franchise.

They can never get a deal done because they're always lowballing - except for Jayson Werth, Edwin Jackson, Adam Laroche, the Ryan Zimmerman/Gio Gonzalez/Michael Morse extensions, and the two best prospects of the past 20 years and highest paid prospects in the history of the game.

They refuse to spend on the major league payroll - The Nats payroll has risen from $63 million in 2006 when the Lerners took over to $92.5 million this year, or a 6.5% per year increase, with no intentions stated or imputed by anyone that is will do anything but rise incrementally over the next few seasons.

People throughout baseball are marveling at the Nats - how they did it the right way, how they're set up to win for the next 5-7 years, how well run the organization is, etc. I'd rather be the 17th highest payroll and be in first place than spend $110 million but be the friggin' Cubs.
Holy crap!  :worship:

That, my friend, is how "Bringing the Sunshine" is done.

The Lerners Are Cheap party had a legit, true complaint through 2009. Starting with 2010 I think the team has trended uphill and it definitely seems as if the Lerners have learned their lessons. This club is ran excellently as a business as the results are showing on the field..

The Lerners have my trust for the future. They've started lightening up the financial belt and stayed out of the way of the baseball people. Within these next couple seasons people will lift up our franchise (starting with the Acta firing, IMO) as how to turn a franchise around. To put everything on Strasburg and Harper is near sighted. Yes, that provided a ton of positive momentum, but that would be ignoring many other key signings, trades, and other positive draft picks.

Offline NJ Ave

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Yes, Gio probably would have taken his magical ability to veto trades and stayed in Oakland...

Offline Mathguy

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You didn't think Soriano or Dunn were big bats ?
You're jumping to conclusions without giving the team management the benefit that they have far more info than you and were following a plan.  Now it's paying off.  Please stop whinning about the team owners being cheap.

yeah so instead of getting a big bat to a poor line-up they operated the cheap way and got a bunch of retreads!  fun year, great idea :thumbs:


Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
  • Captain Sadness
You're jumping to conclusions without giving the team management the benefit that they have far more info than you and were following a plan.

Fielding crap teams for draft picks?  Quite a strategy.

Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
  • Captain Sadness
I had to google herbalife.

What's the O/U age on when you start paying attention to herbal weightloss supplements MDS? Can you enlighten me?

I'm sorry, I'm not really following.  I pointed out he was an easy mark and you're, what, trying to attack my weight?  That's rich.  Believe whatever you want hoss but if you can't recognize the incompetence in the Lerners you're only fooling yourself. 

Offline houston-nat

  • Posts: 19050
How can you say it was correct when the facts don't bear that:
2006: 71 wins
Lerners take over
2007: 73 wins
2008: 59 wins
2009: 59 wins
2010: 69 wins
2011: 80 wins

I think this shows that the GMship of Rizzo correlates far more strongly to performance than the ownership of Lerner, and that the Small Sample Size effect is more powerful still.

Offline PebbleBall

  • Posts: 3440
  • Now that right there is baseball.
There are three names that come to mind that completely invalidate that statement - Maya, Wang, and Henry Rodriguez.  They give the wrong guys long leashes and will continue to do so.

I love the Yunesky Maya boogeyman.  His original contract is bad, but unlike Wang he's still on his original contract and obviously won't ever get anything else.  But most of all, he had 10 starts over 2 seasons and has languished in the minors since - how is that a long leash?


Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
  • Captain Sadness
I love the Yunesky Maya boogeyman.  His original contract is bad, but unlike Wang he's still on his original contract and obviously won't ever get anything else.  But most of all, he had 10 starts over 2 seasons and has languished in the minors since - how is that a long leash?

After start one he was trash but they stuck with him.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21588
Ideal scouting? We sucked really bad and drafted two number 1 overalls and followed that up by going over slot, neither of which are now viable options. Do we have any Dominican presence? Venezualian? Has our academy produced any major league talent, oh wait, we don't have one.

Yes our pay roll has risen, it would be hard for it not to, but it's still bottom of the division- if Lerner gets the MASN bump he's looking for, I have no doubt they'll try to hang on to the present crop of players, but if Angelos wins, there is no way the team retains everyone

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 11493
  • Sunshine Squad 2022
yeah so instead of getting a big bat to a poor line-up they operated the cheap way and got a bunch of retreads!  fun year, great idea :thumbs:
You really think the Nats should have equaled Prince Fielder's contract?

We're an NL team built on pitching and defense. I don't think anyone expected Adam LaRoche to be having this year, but I think everyone also agreed if he didn't work out they could shift down Michael Morse to 1B. Maybe the organization believed in Tyler Moore?

As far as Jose Reyes I was angry when we passed, but in the meantime our short stop is an All-Star.

Offline hammondsnats

  • Posts: 37394
You didn't think Soriano or Dunn were big bats ?
You're jumping to conclusions without giving the team management the benefit that they have far more info than you and were following a plan.  Now it's paying off.  Please stop whinning about the team owners being cheap.

was dunn here in 08?  was soriano? 

no and no.

C Jesus Flores
1B Aaron Boone
2B Felipe Lopez
SS Cristian Guzman
3B Ryan Zimmerman
LF Willie Harris
CF Lastings Milledge   
RF Austin Kearns

The four starters who made the most starts: Tim Redding, John Lannan, Odalis Perez and Jason Bergmann.

Scored 641 runs, Allowed 825 runs.

1st year in a new ballpark.

you have got to be kidding me.

Offline PebbleBall

  • Posts: 3440
  • Now that right there is baseball.
After start one he was trash but they stuck with him.

It was better than Gio's first start with the Nats.

Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
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It was better than Gio's first start with the Nats.

Damn it, just let me hate on Maya without bringing logic or reason into this!  MUST YOU RUIN ALL OF MY FUN!?!?!?!?!?!?

Offline hammondsnats

  • Posts: 37394
You really think the Nats should have equaled Prince Fielder's contract?

We're an NL team built on pitching and defense. I don't think anyone expected Adam LaRoche to be having this year, but I think everyone also agreed if he didn't work out they could shift down Michael Morse to 1B. Maybe the organization believed in Tyler Moore?

As far as Jose Reyes I was angry when we passed, but in the meantime our short stop is an All-Star.

omg dude ... is there any coincidence that the year the lerners have spent the most @ $81 million (and let's be honest, it should be north of $100), the team is having their best season?

i'm also talking about the past years in which the club was awful.  but according to the LANC boys and girls like you and PA, the past never happened.

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 11493
  • Sunshine Squad 2022
was dunn here in 08?  was soriano? 

no and no.

C Jesus Flores
1B Aaron Boone
2B Felipe Lopez
SS Cristian Guzman
3B Ryan Zimmerman
LF Willie Harris
CF Lastings Milledge   
RF Austin Kearns

The four starters who made the most starts: Tim Redding, John Lannan, Odalis Perez and Jason Bergmann.

Scored 641 runs, Allowed 825 runs.

1st year in a new ballpark.

you have got to be kidding me.
You're still breathing fire about 2008. Yeah, we're all pissed that happened, but the team has gone uphill ever since the second half of 2009.