Author Topic: Fielder  (Read 286872 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2000 on: January 10, 2012, 11:05:58 pm »
For what Werth did last year, in terms of WAR, wasn't he technically underpaid?

2.5 WAR = about 12.5 million

AAV of contract is $18 million a year.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2001 on: January 10, 2012, 11:31:10 pm »
2.5 WAR = about 12.5 million

AAV of contract is $18 million a year.



He didn't ask about AAV

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2002 on: January 10, 2012, 11:33:38 pm »
I'd like to remain optimistic and say that we have a deal on the table but Prince and/or Boras are posturing to see if another team will match/drive up/offer higher but won't see anyone do that and sign here.

If I go realistic, I'd hope that we DO have an offer on the table and that it isn't cheap nor is it a "take it over leave it" type. I hope that we're serious about it.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2003 on: January 10, 2012, 11:37:34 pm »
I was being kind pointing out the AAV, PA, come the end of the contract when he's putting up negative WAR and should be paying the Nats to play, not getting paid 20+ million I have no doubt you will sight AAV instead of his current figure to make the Lerners look better on the deal.

Offline PC

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2004 on: January 10, 2012, 11:42:42 pm »
Come the END of the contract when he's putting up negative WAR??? You're being very generous.

I was just thinking the other day, what would have been a non-overpay for Werth.  It would have had to two years less and at least $40 million though 5 years/$86 million would have still been a lot for what we got.

That terrifying!  Two years and $40 million less and it's STILL an overpay!!!

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2005 on: January 10, 2012, 11:48:36 pm »
I was being kind pointing out the AAV, PA, come the end of the contract when he's putting up negative WAR and should be paying the Nats to play, not getting paid 20+ million I have no doubt you will sight AAV instead of his current figure to make the Lerners look better on the deal.



It's possible I could cite it, I definitely could sight it, as long as I can still see :razz:

You can use the AAV to make them look cheaper, I suppose, at the end of the contract. The point that he was underpaid only relates to the actual 2011 salary and you know that. You were being kind to a future argument that no one is having?

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2006 on: January 11, 2012, 02:31:27 am »
A quote is coming to mind:

"This saga is longer than Gone With The Wind and the time has come to conclude this." - Bud Selig, talking about the Expos situation in 1999, five years before he allowed a move.


Something else came to mind, and that was the handwringing from one local baseball writer after another about the perils of going big and getting Fielder.  Most of it hinged around the notion that the team would hit an arbitrary salary ceiling (like Zuckerman's panic-stricken stuff about hitting $90 million in 2014 and [cue Dr. Evil voice] passing $100 million in 2015) that some have been conditioned to accept and sensible with any exceeding of it going into dangerous ground where only other teams may tread.  Of course, I'm not hearing any such fear from Zuckerman when it comes to his personal favorite Sox, nor did equally weak-kneed Boswell less than a year before the Nats arrived. 

I came across this telling article in which Boswell seems quite content to see his bird-in-hand "jewel of a franchise" O's go as large as possible in the free agent market, fully confident in his "big-market" birds that such spending would all be for the better, with no trepidation about future payroll watermarks.  Enjoy the view from who many consider our pre-eminent local baseball writer, and maybe consider the sources of some of the local writers who don't particularly care if the Nats ever go big or not because their baseball hearts beat faster for other teams and markets, which certainly colors their risk-averse positions on Fielder and how soon if ever the Nats compete seriously for pennants:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A22776-2003Dec22?language=printer


Putting On A Big Shift

By Thomas Boswell

Tuesday, December 23, 2003; Page D01


BALTIMORE

Last Opening Day, I wrote, "Why boycott the Masters when you can boycott the Orioles?" Judging by the fading attendance at Camden Yards in recent years, lots of fans reached the same conclusion, many of them before I did.

However, times can change drastically. Now that Javy Lopez has joined Miguel Tejada as an Oriole, with Vladimir Guerrero perhaps coming soon, let's reevaluate. Birds can molt, change their feathers. So can we. If the United States can lift sanctions against Libya for improved behavior, then we can certainly lift our boycott of the Orioles.

Just kidding -- well, sort of. Orioles owner Peter Angelos still doesn't belong on many local Christmas card lists. He continues to publicly and fiercely oppose any team for the Washington area. However, the Orioles' strategy for defending their territory has changed by 180 degrees recently. And that shift makes all the difference.

It's dirty pool to try to keep a relocated team out of this area by fielding a lousy, unwatchable team in Baltimore. Whether the Orioles were bad in recent years by accident or on purpose we may never know. But it stunk that the Orioles whined throughout baseball about how moving the Expos here would kill Baltimore's fragile attendance.

Now, all that has changed. If the Orioles want to defend their territorial interests by assembling a winning team full of interesting players, that is entirely fair. That's just business, that's the way it should be. Let the Orioles be the "jewel" franchise they should be. Let Washington make its case on its own merits. Then let the cards fall.

In a matter of days, the Orioles have radically changed their place not only in the eyes of their fans and critics, but inside the entire sport. When you sign a catcher who hit 43 home runs last year, just a week after signing one of the premier shortstops in baseball -- thus turning your two weakest positions into your two strongest -- a new vista of possibilities opens up. Now, when the great Guerrero (with his .323 career average and one homer every four games) decides where to sign, the Orioles stack up just as well as anyone -- or better.

"We all agreed that this winter was a major crossroads for the history of the franchise," Orioles Vice President of Baseball Operations Mike Flanagan said yesterday in a warehouse elevator. "This whole process has been an enormous pleasure so far and it's a long way from completed yet."

If Flanagan and Jim Beattie keep landing the players they've targeted -- and they're 2 for 2 -- then they may have to invent an end zone dance to celebrate when the phone call comes that tells them they've scored another free agent. "I [don't] have my cell phone hidden in the goal post," Flanagan said. Not yet.

However, if the Orioles sign Guerrero, ex-Oriole Sidney Ponson (17-12) and, perhaps Rafael Palmeiro (38 homers), the phones of Oriole fans will be buzzing night and day.

By spending so little in recent offseasons and by outliving awful contracts (like Albert Belle and Scott Erickson), the Orioles find themselves in what may be a unique situation since free agency arrived in 1976. They are a "big-market" team -- thanks to the magnetism of Camden Yards and the passion of Orioles fans -- that has a very small-market budget. All of the Orioles' big spending this winter merely gets their payroll back to a level appropriate to a franchise that knows its ballpark will fill to capacity as soon as Orioles stars reappear.

"We're trying to create a rational model for a team," said Flanagan. Tejada, Lopez, Guerrero and Ponson -- plus a couple of more decent players -- could probably all fit within that model.

As a final twist, few other teams entered this offseason with money to spend on free agents or high-priced players acquired in trade. And those that did, such as the Yankees and Red Sox, have already shot their bankroll. Hard as it is to believe, the Orioles are almost the only bidder left at palatable prices. Miami politicians just turned down the Marlins on any chance of a new stadium deal. So, Florida can't throw a huge offer at Guerrero any more.

At this point, it is impossible to guess the Orioles' spring training roster. Flanagan uses multiple images, calling it "an elastic puzzle," and saying, "we can keep a lot of pots on the stove."

As an extreme example, if the Orioles do not sign Guerrero, they might sign a second all-star catcher -- Ivan Rodriguez, who just led the Marlins to a World Series crown. Say what?! That can't be right, can it?

But it could. Thanks to the DH rule, Rodriguez, 32, and Lopez, 33, could split the catching duties and play 140 to 150 games apiece. In theory, they would stay fresher, hit better in the dog days and, perhaps, not burn out at a young age like many great catchers have. Lopez has told the Orioles he could play first base at times. One reason the Orioles claim they preferred the slugging Lopez to the rocket-armed Rodriguez is that, thanks to the DH, Lopez may get 550 at-bats as an Oriole. He never got more than 489 in any year as a Brave.

"Pudge is not completely eliminated," said Flanagan. Then, rolling his eyes, he said, "Let me picture my [strategy] board in my room." It must be a sight to see -- perhaps as tangled as that chart of Saddam's family tree.

So far, the Orioles are on target for "Plan A," but there also are plans B, C and D. In fact, so many free agents are adrift in a market in which prices seem to drop every day that there may even be a Plan Z. Flanagan acknowledges that, if the Orioles get ridiculously lucky and sign so many players at reasonable prices that they suddenly seem like a contender again, the total payroll authorized by Angelos might even expand. Greg Maddux?

"That's all part of this elastic process," said Flanagan.

For the last six years, the Orioles have been locked in perpetual fourth-place limbo. Now, they're knocking on heaven's door. Part by plan and part by dumb luck, the Orioles now have Beattie and Flanagan running the show -- with Angelos just watching, not Snydering.

"Getting Tejada was the key," Flanagan said. "That opened up everything else."

Now, most of the pieces of this one-time-only puzzle may fall in place. Last week, a former MVP. This week, a catcher with 43 homers. Next week, perhaps, a cleanup hitter who's better than either. Even in the season of Santa, it's hard to believe.



Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2007 on: January 11, 2012, 06:19:30 am »
if we sign this guy people should not go to games for like a month so he doesnt have that whole "live up to the contract" pressure.  just let him think nobody cares or is judging him.

:crackup:

Offline natsfan4evr

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2008 on: January 11, 2012, 08:03:24 am »
Boras looks to have got a hold of Buster "You get no bologna" Olney.

Quote
Writing in column today that Frank McCourt should have one more thing on to-do list for LAD, besides sell team: Sign Prince Fielder. Now.


Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2009 on: January 11, 2012, 08:08:37 am »
A quote is coming to mind:

"This saga is longer than Gone With The Wind and the time has come to conclude this." - Bud Selig

Just like Selig to drop in a hip pop-culture reference to connect with a younger audience.


Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2010 on: January 11, 2012, 08:10:14 am »
Boras looks to have got a hold of Buster "You get no bologna" Olney.



If they can do it, more power to them.  In addition to any on-field benefits, it might force Stan to drop out of the ownership race.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2011 on: January 11, 2012, 08:12:33 am »
I want Stan owning the dodgers holding them back

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2012 on: January 11, 2012, 08:14:27 am »
I want Stan owning the dodgers holding them back

Cosign.

Offline natsfan4evr

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2013 on: January 11, 2012, 08:15:12 am »
If they can do it, more power to them.  In addition to any on-field benefits, it might force Stan to drop out of the ownership race.

This just seems like a very risky move for a team that is in selling mode. When Buster posts his article, maybe someone with insider access can post it here. I just think that Boras really overplayed his hand so far and is in desperation mode now. All leverage will be gone once the Rangers sign Darvish, so he is looking to maximize Prince's value prior to that happening.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2014 on: January 11, 2012, 08:56:56 am »
I want Stan owning the dodgers holding them back

Do you really think that it was Kasten who held us back?  It was Mark Lerner who kept Bowden on board for so long and it was Ted Lerner who set the budget for player payroll, coaching staff, and the scouting department.  Reports were that Stan clashed with JimBo and left because he disagreed with the policy of keeping payroll low in order to profit off of revenue sharing.  Kasten is a pompous ass, he went on the radio in Philly and invited their fans down to Nats Park, and he wears mommy jeans, but he doesn't carry primary responsibility for the on field product.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2015 on: January 11, 2012, 09:15:03 am »
Do you really think that it was Kasten who held us back?  It was Mark Lerner who kept Bowden on board for so long and it was Ted Lerner who set the budget for player payroll, coaching staff, and the scouting department.  Reports were that Stan clashed with JimBo and left because he disagreed with the policy of keeping payroll low in order to profit off of revenue sharing.  Kasten is a pompous ass, he went on the radio in Philly and invited their fans down to Nats Park, and he wears mommy jeans, but he doesn't carry primary responsibility for the on field product.

I think Kasten wasn't exactly pushing us forward, and I think he was there to provide a baseball insider's opinion to ownership. I think the trifecta of the lerners, kasten, and jimbo all held us back, and I would be happy to see any of them with any other team

Offline imref

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2016 on: January 11, 2012, 09:36:45 am »
so, what should we talk about on this thread today?  the weather?  the new Van Halen track?  more endless speculation of whether or not Morse will fall off a cliff?

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2017 on: January 11, 2012, 09:38:02 am »
New Van Halen track?

Offline Rasta

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2018 on: January 11, 2012, 10:40:27 am »
From Buster's piece....

Quote
Within the industry, the wide expectation has been that the Washington Nationals would jump in, but some highly-ranked Washington executives are telling others: We are not in the Fielder market. The first year of their seven-year, $126 million investment in Jayson Werth went very badly, and some in the organization are scared by the idea of owing two players $40-45 million. "What if it goes badly?" one official asked rhetorically. "With our budget, it'd wreck us for years."

IMO, we aren't getting Fielder unless it's because the market drops so much we have no other choice.  I would bet they have offered 4 years and 88 million or something similar on a much shorter term deal that is ridiculously team friendly.  And we all know Boras will pull a rabbit out of his hat and get a much better deal.   

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2019 on: January 11, 2012, 10:40:57 am »
after reading the dodgers column ...

lol @ our budget ... nice work lerner.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2020 on: January 11, 2012, 10:46:53 am »
Ha, "with our budget"

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2021 on: January 11, 2012, 10:49:21 am »
Pathetic. Cheap jerks


Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2022 on: January 11, 2012, 10:51:37 am »
Pathetic. Cheap jerks

Don't pigeon-hole them.  They're willing to spend, as long as it's on the wrong guy.


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2023 on: January 11, 2012, 10:53:05 am »
:rofl:

:clap:

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fielder.
« Reply #2024 on: January 11, 2012, 10:54:17 am »
Don't pigeon-hole them.  They're willing to spend, as long as it's on the wrong guy.



:crackup:

This dude rules.